tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post2287862014387429533..comments2024-03-11T12:43:36.294+05:30Comments on DefenceWire: The MiG 29Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-76335758065284683802008-04-01T03:25:00.000+05:302008-04-01T03:25:00.000+05:30How old are the Air Frames for the SLAF package ?...How old are the Air Frames for the SLAF package ?Rajaratasurferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15877701773284721637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-61966273624291500042008-03-31T08:09:00.000+05:302008-03-31T08:09:00.000+05:30E.T. Bailey,Very true, I'm not putting down the A1...E.T. Bailey,<BR/><BR/>Very true, I'm not putting down the A10, and we are not fighting the 4th biggest army, and we don't have money to buy really good weapons like the A10. The closest thing to the A10 that SLAF can buy is the SU25. and unlike the Mujahadeen, LTTE is not getting US support.TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091395796772921591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-74912689035385000732008-03-29T21:19:00.000+05:302008-03-29T21:19:00.000+05:30Tomcat,"In Afghanistan the SU25 just went in witho...Tomcat,<BR/><BR/>"In Afghanistan the SU25 just went in without any of the support the A10 got and managed to carry on precision attacks."<BR/><BR/>To be fair, the Mujahadeen didn't have the 4th largest army in the world or a massive air defense network. You can't compare the Su-25's role in Afghanistan to Desert Storm. <BR/><BR/>Do you remember what people were saying before the shooting started in 1991? People were estimating thousands of deaths and a lot heavier air losses, while the A-10 hadn't been battle tested and wasn't very well respected, even within the military.<BR/><BR/>We really scared ourselves with how easily we won, and part of that easy victory is because of the untested A-10's ability to decimate ground targets on a scale never before seen from a plane of that size. And even though the air defenses had been bombed before the A-10 went in, they still had to deal with heavier fire than the Mujahadeen generally threw at a Su-25. Although I will give the Su-25 credit for being in a war zone a lot longer than the Warthogs were in Desert Storm. If the Su-25 had been in desert storm for a few months instead of Afghanistan for 8 years, their losses would probably be much lighter. <BR/><BR/>A-10's can take incredible amounts of fire and still fly. Some even lose one of their engines and just continue on the second. The pictures of damaged A-10s that still completed their missions are amazing. <BR/><BR/>It's a shame the US won't sell Sri Lanka one of the oldest models of Warthogs. Even the 1980's prototypes would be major upgrades to the SLAF's combat potential.E.T. Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14369204396507186919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-82844541853882675922008-03-29T21:09:00.000+05:302008-03-29T21:09:00.000+05:30This comment has been removed by the author.E.T. Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14369204396507186919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-81357756285056688712008-03-29T02:56:00.000+05:302008-03-29T02:56:00.000+05:30thanks tomcat; very informative.look forward to th...thanks tomcat; very informative.<BR/><BR/>look forward to the Su-25 article.<BR/><BR/>we very much appreciate your contribution.Moshe Dyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762527540378686097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-80069892109195218842008-03-29T00:58:00.000+05:302008-03-29T00:58:00.000+05:30Defencewire, need for effective investment and dev...Defencewire, need for effective investment and development of CI/HUMINT has been long over due. If you can post an article about HUMINT without revealing Army activities that'll be great :)sldfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961271270452321080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-15831035987873277092008-03-29T00:38:00.000+05:302008-03-29T00:38:00.000+05:30Very few Su-27s have been exported so far, namely ...Very few Su-27s have been exported so far, namely to only China, Vietnam and India. India now going Su-30MKs. But in contrast, there are over 600 Fulcrums in various Airforce services plus availbility of spare parts. Su-27 know to have higher maintenance costs and complex to operate than the MiG-29. SLAF pilots having flying the Mig27s and their transition to Mig29 will be much easy than any other aircraft, Thus India has about 70 MiG-29s in service, and IAF will be happy to train our pilots and crew in Mig29 operations. Also Su's costs alot more than the MiGs, package deal SLAF got with Rusians if SLAF had gone for SU27 would have cost us $10m more a piece. <BR/><BR/>Even though primary role of the MiG-29SM is to destroy air targets. It has the capacity to attack both stationary and moving targets with guided/unguided munitions in all weather/night time conditions.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Where as JF17 is the other "low cost" $20 million a piece? SLAF alternative. JF17 uses the same Russian engine, the RD-93. But JF17 is new, still in the testing phase. So it's not battle proven aircraft like the Mig29. I think SLAF made the right move with MIG29SM. Given the assumption that no illegal/commisions or kick backs were taken.sldfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14961271270452321080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-66350725783699684692008-03-28T23:24:00.000+05:302008-03-28T23:24:00.000+05:30Tomat, thanks for the info on SU25.It is frustrati...Tomat, thanks for the info on SU25.<BR/><BR/>It is frustrating to know that SU25s were bought due to low commissions for the people/gov involved.<BR/><BR/>"I will post a full detailed description of the SU25."<BR/><BR/>Cool!Roverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17767233435017760334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-34287976726888819352008-03-28T21:54:00.000+05:302008-03-28T21:54:00.000+05:30Shay,I have one question, according to your commen...Shay,<BR/>I have one question, according to your comment who evaluated the SU25? Think twice and ask yourself, why are we having this whole conversation about the MiG29? Didn’t the SLAF evaluate the MiG29 as well?TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091395796772921591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-13014993594814422612008-03-28T21:48:00.000+05:302008-03-28T21:48:00.000+05:30Never never never ever compare the SU25 with Pukar...Never never never ever compare the SU25 with Pukara.<BR/>“for some reason Su-25 reminds me the old Pukara although the two are completely different.” - Moshe Dyan,<BR/>“In Iraq, A-10s went in after most Iraqi anti-aircraft capabilities were mercilessly destroyed by F-16s, F-117As, B-52s and B-2s before A-10 proceeded.” <BR/>In Afghanistan the SU25 just went in without any of the support the A10 got and managed to carry on precision attacks. It went in head to head with Chinese built anti aircrafts fire and Russian built missiles. With all this it managed to hit the targets, although around 22 were lost. it happened in a period of 8 years of combat, without any ground support no proper intelligence. I have to say that almost all the SU25 that were shot down by, were done by Stinger’s, but keep in mind this was without the proper surface to air missile defenses. The lessons learnt were good lessons and the new ones are fitted with flares. <BR/>The SU25 is the work horse of the Russian air force it served in Afghanistan and Chechenia. completely two different terrains. And it’s still performing well in its roll. Do I have to remind you about the time where the SLAF purchased Kfir? I don’t think so. But just to remind you about it, it was when SLAF bought 5 Mi24’s from Global Omarus which cannot fly, and the kfir deal was known to be dodgy, when the rusian government offered G to G equipment our government didn’t take the offer guess why? Not because the SU25 was bad, because the commissions were bad.<BR/>My question is if the SU25 is that bad why are the Russians operate 250 SU25’s? <BR/>During the Afghanistan war the SU25 got the nick name as the flying tank. I will post a full detailed description of the SU25.TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091395796772921591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-83929414007156997932008-03-28T20:50:00.000+05:302008-03-28T20:50:00.000+05:30Def.Wire,I quite agree with your point on developi...Def.Wire,<BR/><BR/>I quite agree with your point on developing HUMINT, and the money spent (and that will be spent on maintenance) on the Fulcrums would have helped us to buy a lot of information (and as someone pointed out, better equip the army ect.). But the need for a fast interceptor is also crucial, perhaps to tackle a scenario which I have outlined above? Or are there other just as fast and "cheap" interceptors that we could have got?Roverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17767233435017760334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-7663166569840920182008-03-28T20:43:00.000+05:302008-03-28T20:43:00.000+05:30Ok, imagine a scenario such as this (there are man...Ok, imagine a scenario such as this (there are many other conceivable scenarios where speed would be the key to success). SLDF forces get close to Kili. VP decides to jump ship and leave SL with his cronies (as he has no other place to go), and uses several of his Zlins, going in different directions, away from Colombo. Then we would need fast interceptors (together with a wingman) to go after each of these Zlins. Given that the cheapest and fastest interceptors that is available are the fulcrums, I guess it is ok to have them as a deterrents to counter the aerial threat.Roverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17767233435017760334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-6030013981788014652008-03-28T20:41:00.000+05:302008-03-28T20:41:00.000+05:30Tomcat, thanks for the information, I agree with w...Tomcat, thanks for the information, I agree with what you've said about the capabilities of the USAF.Roverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17767233435017760334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-43697488795058173352008-03-28T20:13:00.000+05:302008-03-28T20:13:00.000+05:30some pictures from the front lines Pictures taken ...<B><BR/><BR/>some pictures from the front lines <BR/><BR/>Pictures taken March 26, 2008<BR/><BR/>REUTERS/Stringer/AFP<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?ei=UTF-8&p=sri+lanka&c=&datesort=1&fr=&c=images" REL="nofollow">LINK</A><BR/><BR/></B>LKDOODhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18426997279106115254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-46453743648557675922008-03-28T20:07:00.000+05:302008-03-28T20:07:00.000+05:30romeoalphafoxtrot,The need to replace esisting att...romeoalphafoxtrot,<BR/>The need to replace esisting attack aircraft is justifiable given the engines and the airframe of some of our bombers maybe nearing their usefulness in active duty. <BR/><BR/>The choice of MiG29s as a multi-role (air to air, air to ground ) attack fighter needs further justification for us. <BR/><BR/>First of all what is the need?<BR/><BR/>The need is not a fighter to do dogfights but a fighter to strike (decapitation) at LTTE leadership and assets. I am disregarding the so-called threat posed by LTTE bombers as such a threat never existed. It was just a morale booster and publicity stunt aimed at the Tamil Diaspora and to get the government and the security forces to focus away from what matters most and to empty our coffers by spending more money looking for alternatives. We should be ashamed to have exactly this happen to us over this deal.<BR/><BR/>Our sources now indicate that some, or even most of the LTTE air assets may have already been destroyed. In any case, buying MiG29s to down a Zlin is like using a sledgehammer to squash a fly. We have suggested better alternatives for this like the Super Tucano. <BR/><BR/>The main role performed by these jets is, like I've said, decapitation strikes and then attacks on LTTE assets. I do not think MiG29 is the only alternative here. For one, it consumes 50 gallons of fuel for taxi and takeoff alone. Its engines, made of Aluminum casing are not durable enough. <BR/><BR/>These two things (forget the other technical specificities) are going to cost us more in the long run. There is evidence, like in the Algerian case that foreign users of the MiG29 are unhappy with the two things mentioned and like the Algerians, some are going to return them back to Russia. <BR/><BR/>I firmly believe that more money needs to be spent on HUMINT to find out where the Tiger heads are than to purchase more and more attack crafts. Without the HUMINT, no amount of strike capability matters. But with MUMINT, even a Super Tucano can kill Prabhakaran in broad daylight or the stormiest of nights!Defencewirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06358848115700373983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-41926601060594651632008-03-28T18:35:00.000+05:302008-03-28T18:35:00.000+05:30dailymirror:Three new Majors General: Three Briga...dailymirror:<BR/><BR/>Three new Majors General:<BR/> <BR/>Three Brigadiers, who are currently in the northern battle filed, have been promoted to the rank of Majors General. They are Jagath Dias – (General Officer Command (GOC) -57-Vavuniya), Deepal Alwis (Military Secretary) and Jagath Rambukkpotha (GOC-56-Omanthai), military sources said.LKDOODhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18426997279106115254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-43679600637615418742008-03-28T17:42:00.000+05:302008-03-28T17:42:00.000+05:30thanks shay for the link. came to know many new th...thanks shay for the link. came to know many new things. i'm one of those "general public" who ALWAYS wanted more from the SLAF. But not from jets rather from Mi24s.<BR/><BR/>i agree with the post that gunships are a good option for regular CAS. very happy the SLAF is doing so.<BR/><BR/>agree; there are times when jets are needed.<BR/><BR/>however i do not agree that 100 hours are targetted for a plane for a year. i read MiG27s were added 3000 guaranteed flying hours. Surely 30 is not the lifespan. it got to be at most 10 years with 300 hours annually.Moshe Dyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762527540378686097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-67062002846358130902008-03-28T16:09:00.000+05:302008-03-28T16:09:00.000+05:30Moshe,I agree with you. Su-25 was evaluated by th...Moshe,<BR/><BR/>I agree with you. Su-25 was evaluated by the SLAF and rejected when they chose the Kfir instead. <BR/><BR/>Its true that the USA uses A-10 and Apache's extensively for CAS. However, there have been losses to ground fire, especially Apaches, despite having much more sophisticated technology than SLAF aircraft. The US can afford to lose planes, we cannot afford to lose a single aircraft. So its better to stick to fast jets. As you pointed out, if Kfir and Mig's had narrow escapes despite their speed, a Su-25 would most likely have been shot down. <BR/><BR/>The problem with CAS is not the lack of slow moving aircraft/choppers. CAS can be provided just as well by fast jets like the Mig-27. The problem is lack of aircraft. To have round the clock CAS, you need to have aircraft in the air all the time ready to take out targets of opportunity and excellent co-ordination with ground troops. For a better explanation, check out this post by Eksath on the LNP Kfir thread. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2006/9/8415_222.html?CH11206642327361EN1" REL="nofollow">CAS</A> <BR/><BR/>Its true that Mig-29 is not perfect. But, out of the available new aircraft, its probably the only one we can afford and/or be allowed to buy. Another possibility was JF-17, but its slightly more expensive and its still too new to make an evaluation.shayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07685475525570634903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-85126276506548206542008-03-28T15:08:00.000+05:302008-03-28T15:08:00.000+05:30DefenceWire - In your own opinion do you think SLA...DefenceWire - In your own opinion do you think SLAF should go for the MIG-29? Can you justify your answer ?<BR/><BR/>TomCat - I understand by your comments that the Mig29 is not the best fighter from the current generation of fighters. But is it good enough <BR/>1. For SLAF to counter the threat posed by the 'Air tigers' ?<BR/>2. For SLAF to perform any future patrolling of the Sri Lankan Air Space?RomeoAlphaFoxtrothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09636976456011332290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-14440525215748513282008-03-28T13:29:00.000+05:302008-03-28T13:29:00.000+05:30tomcat,now..now. A-10 thunderbolt is a different t...tomcat,<BR/><BR/>now..now. A-10 thunderbolt is a different type of a cat. it is fitted with much advanced avionics, etc. and weapons wise far better than Su-25. of course if we have a few A-10s its fantastic.<BR/><BR/>A-10 and su-25 although built for the same purpose the former has developed ALOT along the way but the latter was simply disregarded. i watched somewhere the amazing gadgets the A-10 was fitted with....beyond comparison!! <BR/><BR/>These are the main differences.<BR/><BR/>In Iraq, A-10s went in after most Iraqi anti-aircraft capabilities were mercilessly destroyed by F-16s, F-117As, B-52s and B-2s before A-10 proceeded.<BR/><BR/>But there is no doubt A-10 is a great piece of weaponry; way ahead of Su-25. A-10 can break all hell on LTTE (that is if we have one) but not the Su-25.<BR/><BR/>for some reason Su-25 reminds me the old Pukara although the two are completely different.<BR/><BR/>LTTE won't let a Su-25 pass over its bases unscathed; it lacks tech. and lacks speed and climb. Our kfirs and Migs had narrow escapes. We cannot futher compromise on speed and climb.<BR/><BR/>thanks for the answer tomcat.Moshe Dyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762527540378686097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-13855051701483093722008-03-28T10:51:00.000+05:302008-03-28T10:51:00.000+05:30It’s a bit hard to compare these 2 aircrafts. One ...It’s a bit hard to compare these 2 aircrafts. One is a dedicated dogfighter plus has multi roll capability, and the other is a dedicated ground attack jet. <BR/><BR/>Yes Moshe Dyan,<BR/>It has problems with the climb and is a sub sonic aircraft, but so is the A10 Thunder bolt. A10 is a bit slower than the SU25 and USAF was just about to retire the aircraft when the gulf war broke out. <BR/><BR/>This aircraft proved its existence and showed the world that its one of the best close support attack aircrafts in the world<BR/><BR/>We are talking about the Iraqi armed forces. Just before it met F15’s F16’s AH64 A, D and D longbows, A10’s and M1 Abrahams it was the 4th largest army and was armed to the teeth with latest Russian weapons. And the A10 managed to survive. The A-10 is scheduled to stay in service with the USAF until 2028 <BR/><BR/>According to wikipedia “In 1991 A10 destroying more than 1,000 Iraqi tanks, 2,000 military vehicles, and 1,200 artillery pieces. A-10s shot down two Iraqi helicopters with the GAU-8 gun. Seven A-10s were shot down during the war. A-10s had a mission capable rate of 95.7%, flew 8,100 sorties, and launched 90% of the AGM-65 Maverick missiles fired in the conflict. Part of the reason for this success were the burning oil wells that provided Iraqi tanks some cover from advanced electronics and high-flying fighters like the F-15 and F-16, where the trained eye, longer gun range and stable gun platform of the A-10 proved its worth.TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091395796772921591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-69694039151678489422008-03-28T09:02:00.000+05:302008-03-28T09:02:00.000+05:30thanks tomcat; very informative.i agree with you. ...thanks tomcat; very informative.<BR/><BR/>i agree with you. the fulcrum is too expensive and irrelevant.<BR/><BR/>someone suggested su-25 in a previous DW or Dn thread; can't remember who it was. i disagreed.<BR/><BR/><B>the problem with su-25 is its VERY SLOW SPEED and DANGEROUSLY LOW RATE OF CLIMB and hence lack of fast manueverability. it can easily be preyed upon by the tigers. for instance the few instances Kfirs and MiG-27s escaped would have been craches if su-25 faced those situations.</B><BR/><BR/>my suggestion is more MiG-27s. at 2007 prices we could have bought 25 MiG-27s!! of course there are other requirements than 25 jets.Moshe Dyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08762527540378686097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-15370053545795624752008-03-28T08:39:00.000+05:302008-03-28T08:39:00.000+05:30Well, Gota would get very angry at you people if h...Well, Gota would get very angry at you people if he sees your comments<BR/>its commission time for him<BR/><BR/>he is a Mig commission specialist remember?Guns&Roseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05964188467841260524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-68807351738270698772008-03-28T08:11:00.000+05:302008-03-28T08:11:00.000+05:30Tomcat,"Very true. But we can go for the Su-25 whi...Tomcat,<BR/>"Very true. But we can go for the Su-25 which is only 11million."<BR/><BR/>So Mig is bit expensive.<BR/>Mig-29M $15 million<BR/>Su-25 $11 million<BR/><BR/>If we consider the performance what would be the comparison between them?hemanthahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08075005485723598181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5899907675904775235.post-56107776345026219802008-03-28T07:23:00.000+05:302008-03-28T07:23:00.000+05:30Hemantha,Very true. But we can go for the Su-25 wh...Hemantha,<BR/>Very true. But we can go for the Su-25 which is only 11million.<BR/><BR/>But it’s just a suggestion. I don’t think the SLA will listen to any of us.TomCathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10091395796772921591noreply@blogger.com