Friday, December 28, 2007

Double-Standards and Indian Hegemonic Psyche

The Sri Lanka Security Forces are being subjected to undue delays in the procurement of offensive weapons and sometimes even defensive weapons from the United States and several countries in the EU. Attempts to procure parts for an old US-made Radar system was held-up due to delays in the issue of an Export License cleared by the US State Department. The delivery of a special body armour for President Mahinda Rajapakse has also been delayed. This is a dangerous phenomenon in the wake of the assassination of Pakistan's Benazir Bhuto. However, other non-offensive instruments were provided to the Sri Lanka Navy by the United States and Britain including several rescue boats.

While the restrictions on arms sales from the US and UK continued, the Czech Republic offered the Sri Lanka government Strela 2M Missile Defence Systems for Katunayake, soon after the first wave of TAF bombers dropped home-made gravity-bombs using the Zlin Z-143. A recent delegation to Czech Republic was told that the Czechs are under 'moral obligation' to assist the Sri Lanka government to defend its skies. They also offered a team of experts to operate the Strela 2M system. These offers were based on the fact that Zlin Z-143s were manufactured in Czech Republic. However, the Czech government had not sold the planes to the Tigers. The aircraft is a standard 'production-line' civilian recreational aircraft, sometimes used for agricultural purposes as a crop-duster. The Tigers had procured the planes from a third-party in Australia. The Sri Lanka government did not accept the Czech offer due to Indian pressure.

Meanwhile the emergencies in Sri Lanka had raised some interest in other countries with arms export industries. Two delegations of Russians arrived in the island in April and December this year. Pakistan had also provided high-quality armaments for a steep price to Sri Lanka. This triggered a visit by a concerned Indian delegation, who were keen to discover what the Russians, Pakistanis and the Chinese delegations were interested in. While this comedy of errors was unfolding, the Chinese North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) was ready with all types of weapons export to Sri Lanka, which included radars and missile defence systems. The Sri Lanka government was forced to turn down missile defence systems from China due again to pressure exerted by India. China is the only supplier that provides weapons at short notice to Sri Lanka. They will however provide the same weapons to the LTTE for a price.

172 comments:

GoldenEagle said...

DW

You are telling that China will provide radars and missile defence systems to LTTE?

Are you sure about this?

Moshe Dyan said...

Well said DW.

Chinese weapons have found their way to the LTTE. They heavily used chinese weapons in the AAB attack.

Also many chinese guns (anti-aircraft capable) are used by the sea tigers.

However, we can't blame china; some of its ailing companies would go bankrupt without orders if not of the LTTE.

One major byproduct of any long conflict is that it provides sustained business for someone somewhere. For them it is survival at the expense of.......anything.

On the part of SL, it should do a supplier assessment (like a company that depends heavily on supplier quality, timely delivery, etc.) and stick to best suppliers. Indian pressure can be best managed by pointing out to them their own delays. Losing a good supplier is more damaging than losing India at this stage of the war.

As DW correctly said, it is double standards. India acts swiftly in countering LTTE threats for India while maintaining a lukewarm attitude towards lanka.

There is a political reason behind this. Sri Lanka is in fact fighting India's war as Tamil Nadu is the real tamil homeland. India is only too happy to manage it in lanka.

Ridiculously, the LTTE is banned in India not in Lanka!!! So we are blaming others without putting our house in order.

Hopefully government top notches read DW; it gives fantastic insights into their ailments.

Nothing escapes DW; well done.

Ninja Bandara said...

Note: There is no big difference between India and western countries from now on, on the policy on Sri Lanka.

-What India says-

No seperate tamil elam country. Stop fighting, negotiate, have a political solution and peace. (and live happily forever like in a fairy tale)

-What india doesn't say (but wanted)-

No elimination of LTTE. Go for federel system with combined NE. LTTE will eventually rule NE (in a democracy) so that a weak Sri Lankan state exist basicaly as a branch of India, forever.

"LTTE may vanish in SL and start fighting in Tamilnadu with India"-This is impossible in present context, however, may not be in our life times, this is possible; Lows of nature are like that.

-China-

I think China give whepons to Burma and corrupted military rulers sell them to another third parties Cambodge, etc and then to hands of LTTE. As I know China hasn't sold whepons to LTTE directly, but may be that chineese company via agiain corrupted officers.

So end of the day LTTE gets what they want but the state is still waiting. This will not happen atleast in 80s we started manufacturing whepons rather than chosing the easy way-begging.

Dulith said...

Guys

There is nothing surprising about any international suppleir selling their products to LTTE.We ourselves did that,and some continue to do so.

I know many companies incolombo were more than willing to sell their products to LTTE during the RW peace process period.I know things like heavy earthmoving equipment,generators,underwater welding equipment were sold to LTTE by Sri Lankan firms knowing well that those would be used directly in their war effort.
Many FMCG companies were represented in North East by LTTE it self for distribution.Once in Batti I saw how Uni***r goods were distributed by the LTTE.
Also all the celular phone firmswere compelled to pay a big ransom(tax) to LTTE in order to maintain their services in NE during those days.None of those firms hesitated least bit considering the high revenue they got from NE due to IDD calls.

So how can we blame some chinese or Isareli firm for selling their products to LTTE?

Navindran said...

I like to remind the people who believe that tamilnadu is the homeland of the tamils should understand that its flawed reasoning. There are many people from various parts of india who have settled in Tamilnadu today. Their top actor is a marathi (Rajinikanth)and there are 1000s of people, leaders who are from other states.

From 1947-1967 when Hindi was been encouraged in someways fanactically, the tamils in tamilnadu felt threatened and they beckoned for a seperate state. However as years gone by and the status of the language was secured and loss of economic opportunities became evident, they became less linguistic orientated.

MGR is a malaylee and Jayalalitha is Telegu. They were both leaders of tamilnadu. Today tamils move around many parts of india.

The Sri Lankan Tamils, even the LTTE looks towards India in a bid to gain support. In general most tamils do not identify themselves with the struggles of the tamils in Sri Lanka. Likewise the Sri Lanka tamils would probabily take more pride identifying themselves as Sri Lankan outside then Indians.

Hence calling tamilnadu the real tamil homeland is very shallow. Tamilnadu and Sri Lanka have been so close to each other and share much history. The sinhalese and tamils in Sri Lanka are a product of diverse migrations and integrations.

The tamils in Jaffna for example probabily identify themselves as tamils due to the close proximity to tamilnadu. The resulting religious and linguistic influences. If the origins of the tamils and sinhalese are found using DNA, chances are that alot of the combatants on both sides might be from the same bloodline. Likewise some of the leaders on both sides probabily would be of foreign descent.

B#1 said...

Mr Navindran,

I have to say same thing again.

Most of Tamils in SL, Love India and Hate SL
That is not because of Sinahala people.
That is because of Tamilnadu and
South Indian Film Industry.

I know this very well because I am a Tamil and i LOVE My country Sri Lanka.

If you continue arguing on this matter you will
become a Joker yourself.

tangara said...

India does not want this conflict to end..
Full stop...

However their current policy is better than that of say 25 years ago...

tangara said...

B#1,

I don't think any Sri Lankan has any issue with peace loving tamils...

Only reason sinhalese asking Tamils to go to tamilnadu is because tamils in Tamilnadu are the majority..Further , tamilnadu has all the hallmarks to call home land for tamils...Then LTTE is calling NE provinces as exclusive tamil home land...That is not acceptable to the majority of Sri Lankans. If Tamils really want an exclusive tamil only home land, then best place is Tamilnadu...
LTTE dreams about a mono ethnic tamil state in Sri Lanka, which is unacceptable to majority of sri lankans.

Hope you will understand the logic here...

tangara said...

Sorry Out of topic,

No of strikes by the JVP has come down drastically this month..

There was one strike on 17 Dec. 2007, after that nothing for the last 9 days.
Overall no of strikes for this month(December) is around 4 against 11 for the last month.

Guys keep writing to these JVP/JHU clowns...Protest where possible.


Sorry , if you are a supporter of JVP/JHU..

Moshe Dyan said...

No Tamil should go to TN as long as they love SL. If they don't it is better for all that they move to TN.

This is what is happening in Malaysia where Tamils find it difficult to engage freely in some activities; a very large movement is seen from Malaya to India, SL, Australia, etc.

However, Tamils who love Malaya stays there including its richest man.

Same should apply to SL. It is like having a quarrel with all your siblings; it is better to move out than....trouble.

On the other hand Sinhalese and Muslims also should be given the same treatment if they engage in treason.

However TN is the Tamil homeland with over 65 million Tamils, plus I recently came to know that all Tamil songs, cinemas, dances, etc. originate from TN and nothing from SL. The LTTE ban extention bill contains a detailed list of reasons why TN is the de facto Tamil homeland and hence the LTTE remains a threat to India. However, India will never want to see the LTTE completely destroyed.

There is nothing wrong in TN Tamil homeland; in fact TN has already beaten SL in development; hence, the influx today is from SL to TN not the other way round as it happened centuries ago!

I agree with diluth that we can't blame any other country for our sad plight.

I also agree with B#1 and tangara. There are more anti-LTTE Tamil militants (TMVP, EDDP, DPU, LRRP)are there in SL today than LTTE!!

Pro-SL Tamils must be awarded privileges to continue their good work and to protect them from falling into the TN lot.

Renegade! said...

Defwire,good article on india's "hegemonistic" intentions,which has caused this ethnic conflict to blossom even more!!..who can forget the in-famous parippu drop,of the 90'S?..

By the way,the Strela 2m's are portable hand-held SAM's,which the tigers already possess..also,we already possess the much-improved SA-16/18 portable SAM's..so why on earth go for a first-gen SAM,like the strela2's?

Renegade! said...

DW,Guys

Is it possible to give a breakdown of all the "classes"of vessels,used by the SLN,together with their numbers,if possible?or,atleast a link?-my mail is-rifi.skyline@gmail.com>>thnkx

jiffy said...

russian involvement is very encouraging. im guessing that as the war escalates countries like china and russia will offer progressively better deals to the gosl. we're now purchasing the kind of gear that puts us in their radar sweep. could we see china and russia aggressively compete for sri lankan tenders in future? we should (ideally) distance ourselves from pakistani aid but there may be certain influential individuals on both sides who gain from these exorbitant prices. ive also heard that pakistani goods are shit.

GoldenEagle said...

I agree with Ninja Bandara in that most of the Chinese weapons(mostly small arms) that the LTTE get are from other countries who themselves have brought these weapons from China.

If the Chinese did offer an entree on weapons for sale for the LTTE, then why have the LTTE not brought radars that can detect incoming Kfirs, MIGs and Mi-24/35?.....I mean isn't the LTTE supposed to be ranking in $300 million per year? Then I am sure they can afford a $10 million Chicom radar that can detect SLAF jets.

Thats why I seriously doubt that the Chinese are offering sophisticated equipment like radars and missile defence systems to the LTTE.

GoldenEagle said...

Defencewire

Why is India so keen on preventing us from having a missile defence system?

And could you tell us how exactly India pressures us to back of good weapons deals?

sri said...

China is the only supplier that provides weapons at short notice to Sri Lanka. They will however provide the same weapons to the LTTE for a price.

I do not think so, if this is the case LTTE would have the latest anti aircraft weapons and shoot down atleast one aircraft per week

Ninja Bandara said...

DW, when you have time could you explain/comment about this article which is also related to your article.

(December, 28, Colombo, Sri Lanka Guardian) According to top level diplomatic sources, members of secrets agencies which are active in Sri Lanka are engaging in promoting cold war between others.


This discrete war increased after revelations about the Pakistan's former High Commissioner to Sri Lanka, Basheer Wali Mohammed claimed an assassination plot on him in Colombo in 2006.

He claimed Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), an external intelligence agency of India was involved in the attempts on his life.

But sources closed to the RAW strongly rejected the allegation, and said "we never involved in any assassination bid".

The source also said the Pakistani intelligence service ISI is involved in the false claim and that Basheer’s claim will be used against us in Sri Lanka.

"On face value, the LTTE was taken as the perpetrator, but subsequently we were able to establish the involvement of this intelligence agency of a neighbouring country", he asserted. "We are now positive that they were behind it", he told the reporters.

"The members of the ISI are strongly involving in the internal matters and with the help of the Muslims Community in Sri Lanka. They are also involving with the Government to help extend the government’s war efforts against the LTTE," the top diplomatic source claimed.

Meanwhile CIA , Mossad and KGB are playing their own role in Sri Lanka.

CIA and Mossad are watching KGB's role in Sri Lanka and are closely monitoring their involvement with the government.

According to sources, "Members of ISI will target the Indian diplomats in Colombo."

Ninja Bandara said...

(out of topic)

Navindran,

First we need to define 'homeland'. It is not motherland. Then the question is 'is it possible to locate for homelands for any given ethnic group? or atleast for tamils?'. Without answering this hard question let me make the point which is easy to understand; and no DNA testing required.

It is well known tamil spoken in Jaffna is (upto some extent)different to upcountry tamil. Upcountry tamil is very similer to present tamilnadu tamil.

Upcountryy tamil is same as TN tamil as they migrated around 100 yeras ago; Difference in Jaffna tamil and TN tamil is becuz that migration happened around 600 years ago. Observe even in this fully connected internet era british and american english have diferences. A migration happened 2500 years ago and now their langauage, sinhala, is totaly diferent to any of indian langauages. Time gaps explains the difference/diviation of langauges.

This (rough)argument is to show there is no way tamils originated in NE and migrated to TN but rather opposite happened; and for nothing else. I hope no one misunderstand this. (This is not to say 'we came frst, you go back to TN')Ofcourse, tamils migrated between that 2500 years point and 600 years point, however they were absorbed to sinhala community. And later some sinhleese were absorbed to jaffana tamil comunity.

Finally, any one has the option to love any country. Sometimes to live in that country as well. This is personal preference, I see nothing wrong with that.

Ninja Bandara said...

Among many bad things there is one good thing happened due to this war.

# For many educated sri lankans (sinhalese) wetern countries were perfect and models to follow. For many traditional sinhalese India was another worshipable motherland. But most of them now understand the duplicty, double standards of these countries; No matter how you worship them, they don't give a damn to us.

TropicalStorm said...

Navindran

The vast majority of the Sinhalese do not consider Tamils to be outsiders to Sri Lanka, fully well realizing the fact that we ourselves are so as well. But the reality here is the vast majority are simply sick and tired of terrorism which is being waged by tamils, which makes the suffering easier to blame on every tamil. What you need to realize here is that even the Sinhalese who talk about tamils belonging to S.India still do not espouse retaliatory measures against the entire ethnic group.

In many ways what the tamils need to realize is the Sinhalese have been more tolerant than any other community anywhere else in the world would have. I live in the US and let me tell you, that if any minority group attempted what the tamils have done in Sri Lanka on this soil, everybody even with a tamil name would be in a barbed wire enclosure for a very long time until they casually figure out the good from the bad. And even then the good guys who are realesed to society would be required to register their lodgings with local law enforcement for quite some time, in case they feel like throwing everyone back in the 'farm'.

I do not espouse any such thing towards tamils or anyone else, but wish the good things abt the Sinhalese and SL in general would be better appreciated.

Upul said...

To absurdly compare your immigrant status in the United States to the situation Sri Lanka is pointless.

You don't even live on the island, as for violence, you will have to stuff it till we get Eelam. Tamils were under sinhala domination for only 80 years out of the last 2500 year history, which indicates this merely an anomoly of history.

That fact is as DW hints at, even India doesn't want LTTE to loose. The West also knows well what racist JHU/MR types who dominate sinhala society are capable of.

The West doesn't want either side to gain military victory, but that doesn't perclude economical, moral or political victory for the LTTE. Any of which is sufficient to get Eelam.

Tamils of Eelam are the original inhabitants of that area, we have in excess of 2500+ history of living there. Just because your lunatic, politically bribed, academic fraudsters archeologists say otherwise is meaningless. No one gives a damn your archaeologists outside of lanka, they have very little credibility due to well known evidence of political interference and outright academic fraud.

Upul said...

We are completely sick tired of sinhala state terrorism and will see to it that we get Eelam.

Upul said...

Sinhalese have been tolerant ?

What shameless lie is that ?
1956,1977,1983 riots, continued ethnic cleansing of tamils from North East ?

Nearly 5000 Tamils killed last year alone, Tamils who scale imprisoned and sent to concentration camp in Boosa.

Tamils sent off from colombo in mass because they are Tamil, thats as bad as the Nazis.
Tolerance, who are you trying to fool ?

Sri Lanka is the third most dangerous place on Earth for journalists.

Sri Lanka is the second worst place for enforced disappearance, abduction and state conducted extra judicial executions.

Talk about tolerance.....

Srilankan said...

tropical storm what do you think will happen if some tamils hacked a black american family to death

Sam Perera said...

All,

The younger brother of Bagdad Bob aka upul aka Revy aka Joseph Goebbels is back smoking pot with his own inverted version of history. I am not here to reply him but to make sure that a casual reader will not take such suicide bomber lies seriously after browsing this blog. Keey your ineresting dialog sans upul the Goebbels. Cheers!

Upul said...

what can MR bootlickers such as sam "hitler" perera say other than don't listen to Upul. They can't seem have any answers or counterpoints, just like his male partner Mervyn Silva.

These are words of a maniac, who is used to getting his way through intimidation and censorship.

All those workers at SLRC and common people who suffer from skyrocketting COL know who is telling the truth.

So you MR "patriot" bootlickers, we 'll give you one way tickets to hell, so please come trying crossing into Vanni.

Moshe Dyan said...

Come'on Upul there are no bootlickers here; everyone is entitled to his/her opinion; learn to respect this.

This is not an outlet for your hate; this is defencewire!!

You only show extreme desperation; which is most welcome. That shows the SLA is doing very well. If the LTTE had the upper hand, you would not be so pissed off!

You can continue to show your dissatisfaction at your own peril cos' we know that everytime you scream, something terrible has happened to the tigers. LOL!

The battle for Vanni will produce the sri lankan moshe dyan; there is no doubt about that.

Weep upul, weep more; we like it; it is sweet music to our ears!

Upul said...

Mushy,

Excellent analysis (let me clap like the other MR tabletop monkeys supporters)

I weep in exorbitant joy of seeing
hobby horse supporters fall over themselves having the nerve to think they have victory in their grasp tomorrow.

Please I encourage you to think the way you are thinking, it sure will make our Eelam struggle a lot easier.

Sri Lanka is no Israel, far from it. Please day dream (more like wet dream) as you doing. Excellent, excellent work...

Upul said...

The writing is on the wall, the whole world is against your criminal MR regime. It was after all our ingenuity that got him in....

defenceline said...

Woman gang raped in Vadamaraadchi
[TamilNet, Friday, 28 December 2007, 03:48 GMT]
Armed men in military uniform abducted a woman Saturday early morning from her house in Imaiyaa’nan close to the Jaffna-Point Pedro road at in Vadamaraadchi, Jaffna, and gang raped her in a shrub land near her house, according to a Women Welfare volunteer Organization. The woman was found lying unconscious by relatives, and was rushed to Manthikai hospital first and later transferred to Jaffna Teaching hospital for further treatment, sources in Jaffna said.

The officials of the Women's organization expressed their wish to remain anonymous due to fear for their lives from Sri Lanka Army (SLA) troops and SLA-backed paramilitaries who are accused of committing sexual violence on women in Jaffna peninsula.

The said Women Welfare Organization has confirmed the incident to media in the peninsula but wishes not to disclose the name.

The woman was alone at home bathing at the well in the backyard before going to the temple where her husband and children had gone to attend December early dawn Thiruvempaavai prayers.

Relatives of the woman, searching for her in the morning, found her lying unconscious with severe injuries of sexual violence and had rushed her to Manthikai hospital.

The abduction and gang rape of the woman and the alleged involvement of SLA and SLA-backed paramilitaries have alarmed peninsula residents already living in a climate of fear.

The SLA high authorities in Jaffna have repeatedly refuted allegations directed against their men despite many instances of sexual violence on women taking place during curfew hours when SLA troops patrol most areas of the peninsula.

The list of recent victims include a 16-year-old girl student and a lady teacher in Jaffna, a family woman in Maalichchanthi in Vadamaraadchi, an elderly woman in Neerveali, and a school girl raped, killed and dumped in a well in Pungkudutheevu.

Moshe Dyan said...

These rape incidents are really sad; so far the Sri Lankan army has been able to keep a clean record as regards sexual offences. If you compare the SLA's record against,

US, UK in Iraq
US in Vietnam
Rus in east germany
Rus in Afghanistan
Sebs in Bosnia
IPKF in N-E Lanka
Pakis in Bangla
Indons in Acheh
Japs in Manchuria
Iraqis in Kuwait
Indians within India
Chinese in Tibet
Turks against Armenians
etc., etc.

the SLA has been exemplary. Esecially most of their enemies are children and women who are very easy targets; so are the suspects too.

SLA must maintain their good record; the bottom-line is "you can't rape your own people". (although Indians do so)

The recent reports are therefore highly disturbing and this type of acts must immediately stop. Although the govt. cannot control the desires and limbs of soldiers and paramilitants, enough controls must be there to stop the recurrence of sexual assaults.

Some TN reports suggest that the culprits may be paramilitants than SLA. Although it is good to unleash the paramilitants in the northern front, they should never be allowed to use sex as a weapon. SLA and others should never fall to the low ebb of Abu Graib fellows. All MUST condemn these acts without reservations.

Srilankan said...

Moshe dyan..firstly we have to make sure it was the army..and not men dressed in army fatigues.Next we have to interview the victim and family and see what help we can offer them.This has all the hallmarks of heading towards the LTTEs final defense ..ie..these human rights violations Bsh**.

Eranda said...

I have been following DefenceWire blog since the beginning and I really appreciate all of your contribution except this Upulam. People like Upul have one thing common that rather participating constructive discussion , spreading filth and hate among the blog. I strongly believe Upul doing this purposely to lover the recognition and standards of this site and I strongly urge all of you to not falling to this trap.
The best thing we all can do ignore him completely and let him make clown out of him self. I think blogers in the DefenceNet already started to doing this.

Upul said...

here we go with eranda's little cock and bull story,

Another MR/Mervyn Silva bootlicker in the forum, unable to respond to MR regimes corruption so he think he can tie sites reputation with some one who makes a comment on site forum.

Nice try, go join Mervyn's hoodlums

Eranda said...

Upul,

This is my first and last post to you. I believe purpose of this site to discuss defense related matters related to Srl Lankan defense forces. Perhaps you should start your own blog to discuss “MR/Mervyn Silva bootlicker” stories.

Moshe Dyan said...

Don't try to create a Mervyn Rajapaksa; the two are different. In fact Mervyn is more of a tiger than a pro-Lankan.

SLRC is in a security zone; how can thugs violate security zones?

Only terrorists violate them.

However, UNP after the budget and LTTE after TS are clining into the Mervyn incident for some relief after massive defeats.

This is a good cover-up for pro-LTTE fellows to forget the casualties of the Delft incident and the two repeated SLAF bombings.

Another SLAF sorties is due tonight; Upul run for cover!!

Navindran said...

I am suprised by many arguments. India joined the Asian sub contient thousands of years ago. Since the first African migration and subsequent migrations, people can trace have continued to move into India and finally Lanka.

India and Lanka are not seperate. The migrations have always been mutual. Overtime due to the North being occupied and also next to Tamilnadu/Kerela strong influences have been over the people there. Today they identify themselves as tamils.

A DNA test on all Sri lankans will reveal this. Most people on both sides love to believe in folklore. They also have selected amenesia. hence they stand to believe in those logic.

First step all people who were born today and live today in Sri Lanka are Sri Lankans. If that concept is clear all this problems will be eliminated. Beliving otherwise will never end the conflict.

Navindran said...

There are some people who say that naplm bombing is a solution. The Americans employed this in Vietnam because it was not their country. Why would you suggest doing this to your own country.

b#1 if the tamils loved india, they would be investing in India and not in places like colombo. You hide your identity so I cannot tell if you are really a tamil.

tangara you say LTTE is calling the North east their homeland. Your following aruguments also equate the LTTE to the tamils. Hence I guess you would ask Muralitharan to go back to India. Afterall he is closest to India, his wife is from tamilnadu.

Navindran said...

Moshe Dyan just because songs, movies come from one country does not mean we all have to go there. English do not go to America.

The indians in Malaysia who are protesting are similar to the Indians in Sri lanka. They were brought to work in plantations. However just like the CWC, the MIC in Malaysia does not look after the concerns of the people they represent.They are heavily corrupted.

The others including Ananda Krishnan whose forefathers are from Sri lanka are doing very well and usually distance themselves from the underclass tamils. The Sri lankans like BP de Silva are famous jewellers who are royal jewellers to the kings. Hence they will also not ask for a seperate state ect.

This is not the forum for the issues which resulted in the prostest. However you statements show your are ignorant of the causes of the situation.

tangara said...

Defencewire,

Looks like one of your postings has been confirmed.

http://www.dailymirror.lk/DM_BLOG/Sections/frmNewsDetailView.aspx?ARTID=2528

tangara said...

Defencewire,

Keep up the good work.

Srilankan said...

Navindran i am not against tamils.there is nothing wrong with law abiding tamils living wherever they like to live in SLanka.However sinhala/muslim people need to be able to live in the north just like the tamils.I need to take your mind back to the time when the muslims and sinhalese were forcibly evicted from the north by the LTTE.These evicted peoples have the same right to their own lands in the north in their own country just like tamils do.

Sam Perera said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sam Perera said...

srilanka and navindran,

I believe that you both talk about the same thing. It also seem that, the both of you have the same view. I also agree with both of you. Be it Sinhala, Tamil, Moor or whatever, citizen of Sri Lanka have the right to live at their choice of geographical location while enjoying equal rights. I agree that it doesn't happen like that currently. Sinhalese and Moors are not allowed to live in north by LTTE. Majority of Tamils live in the South under less than ideal living conditions. We can develop several dissertations from the arguments floating back and forth on who owned what etc in the past. However, in shrinking world with boundaries fading away every day due to technological advancements (eg. this blog), the past becomes less and less relevant for peaceful co-existence today. The major obstacle we have against peaceful co-existence is LTTE and not having a decent power sharing program. Lets hope that we can achieve both with the combined efforts of all Sri Lankans in the year of 2008.

Wish you all a happy and peaceful 2008

Srilankan said...

Many thanks for your input Sam and i fully agree with you.
Wish you a happy newyear.

GoldenEagle said...

Navindran

"A DNA test on all Sri lankans will reveal this. Most people on both sides love to believe in folklore. They also have selected amenesia. hence they stand to believe in those logic."

What DNA tests reveal is that all the ethnic groups in the sub continent have only marginal differences among them. For examples the native peoples of Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Bihar, Andhra Pradesh, Bengal, Delhi, Gujarat etc all are very very similar genetically with only marginal differences. But they each of their native population by in large have a distinctive look(physically) to them. Thats why the Sinhalese population has a distinctive look , thats why the Tamils have a distinctive look, thats why the Moors have a distinctive look etc.

The SL Tamils are pretty much genectically identical to the Tamil Nadu Tamils, its obvious Tamil nadu is their original homeland. Now I am NOT saying that the Tamils in Lanka should go back to Tamil Nadu, they are Lankan citizens whether they like it or not because they have lived on the island for 800 years. But to say that the Tamils original homeland is not Tamil Nadu is a bit silly.

Upul said...

From lankaenews,

News is out, 2 Dvoras not 1 were sunk.

How come DW and DN didn't make this update.

(Lanka-e-News, 2007 Dec.29, 6.30 PM) A foreign intelligence service accuses the Government that it ignored the information provided two days before the fight in Delft Sea and the suspicious ship in Arugam Bay Sea on December 26. The Government security forces suffered immensely due to this ignorance.

The intelligence service informed to a DIG of the Presidential security and another DIG of SIS on December 24 that LTTE was preparing to transport a top official or a shipment of arms. One DIG told that he would pass the information to the Defense Ministry although the Defense Secretary would not care it. He told that although he could understand the importance of it, the bigwigs could not.

Two days later, an Indonesian ship was found anchored in Arugam Bay Sea. The Captain said that the ship was short of fuel. A twelve member Indonesian crew was on board the empty ship.

The foreign intelligence service says that the Navy captured the ship after unloading arms shipments to the LTTE.

Similarly, the Sea Tigers attacked the Navy that was not alert and two Dvora Fast Attack Crafts and a number of personnel were lost.

This foreign intelligence service is engaged in safeguarding their country from terrorism and it is not studying the problems in Sri Lanka. They accuse that the higher officials ignore the information passed to Sri Lanka due to their arrogance.

Lanka-e-News previously revealed how this intelligence service provided information on the LTTE attack on the Anuradhapura Airbase a week earlier. The Government ignored it and suffered a huge loss.

the boss said...

I, as a tamil, cannot see a life on the island currently called Sri Lanka without Eelam.
Had enough of these racists sinhalas.

Upul said...

The Impending Reality

MR Regime has improved on a couple of things that CBK regime never managed to do.

CBK regime went for outright news censorship when things when from bad, to worse to nightmare.

MR regime learnt from this and is playing shadow and dagger game. No official censorship, but intimidation, assault and murder of journalist not falling in line. The rest they hope will roll into place like rats.

MR Regime's media spinning is undoubtedly successful, it has cultivated an air of eminent victory out of thin air by preying on the weakness of the colombo upper crust and middle class sensibilities.

It has reinstilled various myths, reinvented MR as modern day Duttugemunu, claim that Tamils need to be freed from dictatorship and oppression, claim of Tamil alieness to lankan soil and more Tamils prefer to live in Sinhala south than VP's North.

The bulk of this support stems from
Colombo's pro-establishment urban upper crust (the ones with internet connections) closet Budhist ideologist, who were always behind the war. They also felt the least impact from its outcome, except for the occasional attacks within Colombo itself.

The upper/middle class also is behind the war effort, although it has lost due to souring economics, but more due to fear of whats to come.

The peasant/working classes provide the labour and susistenance for the MR regimes war effort, but paradoxically also has the least say. It is the group most affected by the economic mismanagement and has started to show rising violent anger towards the regime.

Situation on the ground has shall we say been altered to make MR imagineered feat sound plausible. It takes two or more to tango and hence there are mysterious other players.

Myths are created to cover up the humble reality. The reality however is massive economic, political and social mismanagement.
The argument has been that all that doesn't count. It is standard Machiavellian Logic, 'end justifies the means'. The argument has been that MR's regime has done a fantastic job with the military. MR supporters will hold to key on the ground facts, the supposed emptying of the LTTE from the East, with minimal casualties, superior air power and targeted strikes against LTTE leaders, effective use of LRRP and new on the ground intelligence. The underlying factors that have given an impression MR is doing a fantastic job is becoming a myth, as with other other honeymoons that transition into outright dictatorships.

Why ?

*Centralization of arms procurement - no oversight, rampant corruption

*Media stunt based military planning and execution - no vision, back to Jayasikiru politicization of military

*Reliance on unreliable intelligence /paramilitary sources, allows for enemy to infiltrate and influence attack strategies

*Ad hoc choosing and elevation of military officers, civil service - to ensure loyality to regime, but discourage meritocracy

*Over expansion of real estate - Greater dependence on playing to gallery, need to out show previous military victories with greater ones, without accounting for the real long term costs.

Impending Choke points

International Community - Pushing for Human rights Monitoring, trade sanctions, pariah status

The international community is MR regimes worst enemy. It fought tooth and nail to bring down the regime at various key points behind the scenes and continues to do so. MR regime and the modern West are incompatible, but nevertheless palatable for the moment. However IC failed due to its limited influence outside of Colombo's western urban elite, has limited on the ground contact and repeated failed hopes in a loosing horse.

The objective of the IC then is to break its dependence from beyond the colombo urban elite and tap into the masses. It has dangled foreign aid, Tsunami reconstruction as conduit to influence and shape the Sinhala masses. It also makes contact and tries to nurture middle level to upper echelons of the military office corps. All of which will be necessary for it to directly counter MRs growing influence at some point.

International Community (WEST) wants to see a lanka (the island) best shaped for its business interests (period). It has no compulsion on Sinhalese Buddhist ideologies or for that matter Tamil ones. It does not want to see LTTE win through use of its 'terrorist' tactics but has made clear numerous times that it cannot object to partitioning of the island into Tamil and Sinhala states through other more conducive means (if its good for business). As much as it hates specific terrorist tactics, it also vehemently hates the impending dictatorial rule on the island. It for that matter hopes to Tame the Tigers, while also levering control over the south. It does not want to see MR regime stay for long, even the LTTE and India understand this and their actions Or for that matter patience makes sense introspected from that perspective. This explain lack of LTTE willingness to loose substantial men or resources to attempt daring feel good attacks and gain new real estate. India has decided on a hands off, being more Western that West policy and by doing so gaining acceptance as a member of the Western cabal.

The Writer said...

Hey what's happening in mannar???
give us the real news??

the boss said...

At least 20 Sri Lanka Army (SLA) soldiers were killed and 40 wounded Saturday morning when heavy fighting broke out in Uyilangku'lam - Parappaangka'ndal area between the SLA and the Liberation Tigers of Tamileelam (LTTE), Tiger officials told media in Ki'linochchi. Three LTTE fighters were killed in action. Meanwhile, an infiltration attempt by the Sri Lanka Army Deep Penetration Unit (DPU) was thwarted by the Tigers at LTTE Forward Defence Line at Mukamaalai, the Tigers said.

TropicalStorm said...

The SL conflict has already crossed the point of no return and the status quo that existed for twenty years completely shattered.

Some definitive stats that will define the inevitable outcome are;

The LTTE intransigence and inadequate man-power to hold the territories it claims.
SL's overwhelming military superiority at stretegic, tactical and operational levels, economic resistance to chaos and popular demand by approx 80% of population towards a military solution viz-a-vz the LTTE.
The India (Rajiv Gandhi) factor.

While the list is long and getting longer by the day, the most interesting factor among all of them is that even a govt change at this point will fail to change the direction of the present course of events. The UNP will soon become a very attarctive choice to the general population once they establish the fact that the war will continue irrespective of govt change, to bring the LTTE to its knees since there's no alternative to it.
The best way forward for the LTTE is to assasinate Velu and Pottu and then convert themselves into a political force under someone with a proven military background.
Needless to say why the second line will be in for further elimination...

TropicalStorm said...

"..Media stunt based military planning and execution .."

Tell that to Tamilchellan and some others.

They'll die laughing...

Upul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Upul said...

Media stunts-
Muhumalai I, II, III ?
Short memory ?

Muhumalai I - 450+ Dead
half of Jaffna armoured corp captured or destroyed for slfp meeting

Muhumalai II for budget speech..

TS death - I can tell you his home was well known since he was a public peace negotiator. Political heads have to interact with the public.

i believe security precautions weren't taken, since ltte military didn't believe he was a target.

ram said...

what happened in mannar ?

Security forces advanced further into non-liberated Wanni area, today (December 29) following hours long artillery duel with LTTE elements in general area Parappakandal at Mannar defences, ground sources said.

Troops forced and held into the LTTE defences at Parappakandal, Mannar, a major terrorist fortifier, military sources said. Latest ground reports confirm several LTTE leaders including 'Adavan master' and Susilan were among the terrorist casualties.

According to troops, advancing military units were met with heavy LTTE resistance during the pre-hours since this morning at around 6.15a.m. 'Intel' reports citing intercepted LTTE communication said, hundreds of LTTE elements were on the flight due to increasing strife among its ground leaders following heavy beating at the hands of security forces. Bahnu, Laxman, Parthivan, Susilan and Adavan master were identified to have led LTTE terrorists during the heavy fighting today, ground sources further revealed.

LTTE terrorists have engaged heavy artillery barrages including 130mm and 122mm guns during its last efforts to hold the defences, security sources said. Troops launched decisive long range heavy gun fire before consolidating its positions, military sources added.

Meanwhile, MCNS reports stated, twenty terrorists were killed including two LTTE senior cadres.

The Writer said...

Dear "The Boss"

Like Prabhakaran you also like to call your self a boss ..... well thats ok cz these kind of stuff runs in tamil blood! cz too much slavery in the past huh?? never been a boss dont ya!?

it's seems like you got a fucking problem with the Sl army hah?? go and lick some prbha's balls for a change? fucking keyboard heros!

this is not LNP! as a advise dear never show your asshole too much in this blog otherwise you get fucked like other guys!

go and fuck your self! Ltte cunt

20 sla died! 40 injured my ass!
tamilnet is fucked too since TC incident... !

tangara said...

TS death - I can tell you his home was well known since he was a public peace negotiator. Political heads have to interact with the public.


TS was on a call to someone using his satellite phone and his GPS cordinates were tracked thanks to the same satellite...
Then the SLAF used a satellite guided bomb to distroy his home, a well fortefied bunker.
Go and have some sleep.

Upul said...

"the writer"

do you want your favourite newscast to say 10,000 LTTE killed, 20,000 wounded ??

Grow up with defence.lk then.

Attack is the Best Defence said...

http://www.lankaenews.com/Sinhala/news.php?id=3973

LANKAENEWS is not that much of a reliable information source but as usual I would really like to know if there is any connection with this and the reality from DN. PLS provide us with some information

NOLTTE=Peace said...

I am always fascinated by Dr. Nalin De Silva's wisdom and enlightenment on current issues,

Here is one article
http://www.divaina.com/2007/12/30/feature17.html

I am waiting to read from him about India's double standards when it comes to LTTE issue too.

BTW, Defencewire, your article about Indian hegemony is a brave eye opener. What I do not want is GOSL to publish all the defence aid/intention of foreign governments to help SL, in advance. Then India and other "interested powerful countries" come in between and try to block them.

LTTE has gotten Chinese weapons through intermediates and corrupt weapons dealers i.e Liberia, Eritrea, Burma, Thai, and Indonesia related. It is highly unlikely that the Chinese government is behind selling arms to LTTE.

However, it is agreed that China should have a greater control where their arms are going.

Illegal.existence said...

NoLTTE, there's a great collecion of Nalin De Silva's articles on www.kalaya.org

The Writer said...

"Upul"

So nana wants me to take on him too! Get some kind of a life rather than analysing defence in sri lanka. czzzzzzzzz

you cant even analyze your buthole
brother

keep away from trouble bro!

Moshe Dyan said...

2008 is going to be the year of death for the LTTE; the war budget, Vanni, shrinking LTTE area, etc. means a sure death for the tigers.

Attrition warfare bears fruit as more and more tigers are dying everyday; at this rate an annihilation is imminent.

How long can the LTTE maintain 5 battlefronts in the North? Soon the SLAF jets will start bombing LTTE FDLs and that would be the culmination of this long war.

I wish Lalith A was alive; he did a fanastic job without all these fancy weapons. He was the most educated and most intelligent politician SL ever had and he was hell bent on war; that shows the correct way to go for all those who preach surrender.

Only less educated (no fault of theirs) politicians didn't wage a violent war that the LTTE actually started in 1972. An attorney-at-law without a succesful practice ever is as good or bad as uneducated anyway.

Check for yourselves if you do not trust me.

1972-1977 - SB - no war!
1977-1983 - JRJ - a covert war
1983-1987 - JRJ/LA - a violent war
1987-1989 - Rajiv G. - a tactical war
1989-1993 - RP - no planned war; few skirmishes and very limited ops though a big noise was made
1993-1994 - DBW - a late little attempt
1994-2001 - CBK - an unplanned war to "force the LTTE to talks"!!!!
2001 - 2004 - CBK/RW - surrender
2004-2005 - CBK/MR - surrender
2005- - MR/RW - a planned war although many lapses exist

Also look at the disparity. LTTE was formed in 1972 and declared war on the nation. However, we started the war proper on our part in 1983! Eleven (11) years later, eleven long years later!!!

LTTE never stopped its struggle war, peace or surrender. We stopped ours for the Indians, surrender, "peace", cricket matches, pope's visit, etc., etc.

In a way I'm surprised that SL somehow has pulled through major victories in the recent past and poised for the big kill after all these nonsense and the late start.

Well done SLA, SLAF,SLN,STF,LRRP,DPU,EPDP,TMVP and also IPKF.

Any comments???

Upul said...

by 1993, LTTE gave up all of the Eastern province within 6 months or so, on that point I think you are underselling the war then.

1994-2001 - wasn't a war planned for talks - it was total war to defeat the ltte militarily because the talks broke down, that is impose a political package with a military solution (same as what MR wants to do), but CBK already did.

Upul said...

The odds against the LTTE then was HUGE. EVERYONE said LTTE will be wiped out in 1996 when Jaffna fell.
Infact LTTE had no allies then, including an India that wanted revenge and TULF was at loggerheads with LTTE.

Everyone said walking through Vanni was cake walk in 1996. They were mostly right, LTTE didn't even have heavy/long range artillery piece.

Moshe Dyan said...

But CBK's strategy was to force the LTTE to accept her "package". It was concurrent and it was called a "two pronged strategy" (nonsense anyway). MR's strategy is to wipe out the LTTE and offer a "political solution" to tamils.

After capturing jaffna in 1995 there were no operations until the July 1996 Mulaitivu attack, a fantastic attack for the LTTE. Then the "land-grabbing" war started and went till 1999 when the SLA was beaten; they even captured kilinochchi, if I remember right. But the LTTE had its most vital asset - man power.

In 1999 LTTE skillfully diverted a massive arms shipment heading to Lanka to their own area; though I do not know what happened later. This type of blunders are unlikely under MGR! (MR+GR)

MR (specifically GR) is trying to finish-off that; not to grab land. This is another primary differece.

GR knows that the LTTE is hardpressed on manpower/womenpower/childpower as the UN/UNICEF are also on LTTE's back. His assertions are further proven when he came to know that the LTTE wanted at least one from every family in Vanni to join it.

From a political pov killing as many terrorist supporters (attrition they call it) helps in many ways; if you know what i mean.

I learnt that the SLA is also going for fragmentation mortars which they avoided for so long (?); their intentions are crystal clear.

CBK and anuraddha ratwatte (a not so smart guy to put it diplomatically) never attempted this.

CBK also had the x-mas truce every year which is a notable absentee now. In fact joseph para was gunned down on x-mas eve by whoever it was!!

It was CBK who brought No-Way as facilitator, MR trying his best to force them out by making their lives miserable. CBK never tolerated the TMVP; MGR has turned the TMVP into an asset.

In CBK's time the "civil defence force" was not armed; only home guards carried them. Now CDF is armed as appropriate.

CBK jumped at every "peace" opportunity whenever a foreigner came; today's guys call them "terrorists".

CBK had mangala's white lotus stuff to cool down the SLA and the people whenever emotions tend to run high. Nowadays the govt. encourage public participation.

In 1995 when jaffna was liberated, the govt. threatened the people not to celebrate. In 2007 eastern liberation was celebreted by the govt. at the Independance Square!

LTTE leader's chldren were in SL right throughout CBK's rule; imagine what would happen if they were here now!

LTTE leader was never actually targeted by CBK; now the govt hunts him down.

CBK supported the CFA, MGR is trying to abbrogate it.

That is why CBK's "war" was completely different to today's war.

Also todays leaders are from Texas (sorry the South); myou know that stuff.

Upul said...

Moshe,

Lalith A sprayed acid on his first wife or so I have heard. This was well known then in the lates 80s.

Intelligent politician is an oxymoron for sri lanka. This measure of intelligence business is deeply flawed and truly undervalues most people on the island. Lee Kuan Yew founder of post independent singapore admitted he was not as intelligent as Bandaranaike (they were same class in Oxford), yet look at Lee Kuan Yew's miraculous accomplishments and Bandaranaike's...

Upul said...

1995-1996 there were operations in an around the jaffna peninsula, thought not heavily advertised.

CBK had the entire Western world behind her including Japan and India, she was funded, armed and oiled to the teeth by 1990s standards.

"Attrition" was also done under CBK in Jaffna.

CBK never signed onto the ceasefire although she did initiate the process due to Western pressure, she completely relented after her backers caved in.

The other aspects of CBK vs MR differences have little to no impact on the war (LTTE children in lanka, x-mas holidays, victory celebrations).

So all of this dejavue

Upul said...

I also think there is a tendency to think, "in our time something different (better) is happening, something that didn't happen before".

Moshe Dyan said...

I DISAGREE.

Lee was definetely more intelligent than SWRDB. As regards Education (which is a different thing) both were equal. There is no difference between Oxford's first in the class and another Oxford achiever.

SWRDB even didn't know the local language in 1925 and his local knowledge was not so great.

But I agree with you that "intelligence" is an oxymoron used by many politicisns. But you can assess for youself impartially (but unfortunately you are lopsided).

I do not wish to compare SL politicos with out siders; they are simply one of a kind!!

At least we can compare education achivements of the commanders in chief (not of doctor mervyn and the likes of course). Don't you agree?

Among bill clinton, JFK and GWB (jr), JFK had the highest IQ , GWB the lowest. Only if SL had an IQ test for politicos!!

Indeed LA is accused of some nasty things, but, the Cambridge and HArvard product was a great and a violent warrior.

GR has been a UNIX programmer at a US firm; not everybody can become a programmer!

Even the great Lakshman Kadirgamam supported war before talks.

It is said that robert mcnamara selected (they used punch cards to sort!!) the best "mathematicians" in the US army in 1943 and asked them to suggest how to maximise the "killing rate".

Though he failed the Vietnam debacle (due to many reasons beyond his control), the ww2 was a victory.

MGR is defeinetely more intelligent (shrewed) and educated than CBK.

Fonseka is same compared to daluwatte. Karannagoda and roshan are way ahead of CBK's SLN, SLAF guys!

Srilankan said...

Moshe Dyan.. i knew Lalith Athulathmudali..very well..a close family friend.Dont believe all the rot you read

NOLTTE=Peace said...

Illegal Existance,

Thanks a lot for www.kalaya.org link.

There are many articles from Dr. Nalin De Silva there.

They open your eyes and cut through cloud.

Just now read the following,
http://www.kalaya.org/files/d070513.pdf

Upul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Upul said...

obert mcnamara in vietnam is a case and point of how not to conduct a war. He may have had mathematical intelligence but surely not strategic.

The other point to make is even if a person is intelligent by IQ standards a person could get stuck in blunders, due to pride, arrogance and personally held irrational beliefs.

Nevertheless. when sri lanka's conduct is generally seen as unjust by the power brokers of modern world now. MR chance are against very steep uphill battle.

TG from asiantribune also is of the mindset things will get very rough for sri lanka internationally.
http://www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/8923

Even if SL attempts to make substantial gains:
The power brokers that be will not want to see one side tear up the so called peace process and march as they please, although that is what is occurring right now (unofficially speaking).

For them if the peace process appears deeply flawed to those well outside the process (through oneside gaining over the other), then such peace process tricks wont work for the west in the future. New potential adversaries will never trust the likes of Norway or the west to getting into these deals. This would set a very dangerous, unacceptable precedent for them. So inevitably, MR is up against the West and thats victory for the Tamils.

Upul said...

So the West will collectively take a deliberation very soon against MR and Co.

They have to a degree already done so:

Germany and Canada have stopped all aid to Sri Lanka

US has canceled Millennium challenge found

Recently Bush has signed into law bill to barr any form of military aid or sales to sri lanka.

Japan has threatened stop to all of its aid if cfa is torn up, in private (which is unprecedented)

Plus this would also cover world bank and asian development bank because many of the same countries can veto funding to sri lanka there as well.

Thushanthi said...

I am glad to see most of you having such a balanced view of the tamil/sinhala issue. Yes, both races have a right to live in SL for as long as they love the country and for as long as they are loyal citizens of it. No one has the right to the country merely on the basis of one's ethnicity. The Tamils are (specially at present, let alone the past) a privileged minority when comparing with the issues of the minorities of the world. If you look at the issues of the whole world and the minority majority issues, there is no country in the world without frictions on the subject. It is a very extreme view being held by people like Upul and the Boss and in my opinion, not worth responding to.

There will not be any Elam! To think that there will be, is a dream.

If a minority carries out the kind of acts that the LTTE is carrying out at present in SL in any other country, no tamil will be able to live in any other areas outside NE and the sinhalse have been very tolerant in that context. Though of course there were lots of short coming AND 'discrimination' in the past. Mostly due to the selfish acts of corrupt politicians.

I mentioned this before. Is there any other country which has a similar issue like ours in which, individuals of the relevant minority has held/and hold such prominent places like the DIG, foreign Minister, Attorney General??

NOLTTE=Peace said...

WELCOME Thushanthi..!

This is a man dominated world sadly :-(( and glad to see a female is here.

This is the only country where civilans comes to enemy (GOSL) controlled area (they have been taught that as the 'enemy territory') for refuge when there is war.

Eelamists claim that they are been discriminated, but any Tamil can live in the GOSL controlled area freely, but Sinhalese can not go to any of the LTTE controlled area without being killed.

That is the sad fact!

Upul said...

whether a view is extreme or not is purely based on your value judgment.

Eelam is a distinct reality now, all communities will have to live with. Sri Lanka the modern nation state born in 1948 is an anomaly of history, just like the other 80 years of the last 2500 under which lanka was under one sinhala ruler.

Upul said...

nl=p

Sinhalese widely visited Vanni during early days of ceasefire. Sinhalese live in vanni, though not in sufficient numbers. As I had said earlier, there was sinhala representation within LTTE peace delegations.

Sam Perera said...

The latest tactic by rabid LTTE suicide bombers is to change the history by repeating lies over and over, assuming it is going to become the accepted version of history. Just to make sure that such blatant lies don't go unchecked, I wish to say that this is pure inversion of historical facts, only a vicious and murderous LTTE liar can concoct. Even though this blog is not the place to discuss such blatant lies about Sri Lanka, I challenge this liar upul aka Revy to present us the basis/references for these blatant lies.

"Eelam is a distinct reality now, all communities will have to live with. Sri Lanka the modern nation state born in 1948 is an anomaly of history, just like the other 80 years of the last 2500 under which lanka was under one sinhala ruler."

Upul said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Upul said...

Sam,

Here is the basis for that statement, Tamil area of jaffna was under a sinhala ruler for about 80 of the last 2500 years or so years before 1948.

The only rulers who had full control of the island include the Jaffna/Naga kingdom was during:

Vijabahu I (1055-1110)
Parakramabahu I (1153-1186)

It is worth mentioning: 1450-1467,
Sempaha Perumal (Tamil) with help of Parakrama Bahu IV and his sinhalese army briefly occupied the Jaffna kingdom.
Due to role of sempaha perumal as ruler of jaffna, but under influence of parakrama IV its on the sidelines.

So if we take the original two rulers it would 88 years, if you count as parakrama bahu, then its
105 years out of the last 2500 years, before 1948.

Reference of different rulers of jaffna kingdom over the last millennium
http://www.sangam.org/FACTBOOK/Millennium.htm

Srilankan said...

Sam see how some people think the bloggers here are utter donkeys.

Thushanthi..your absolutely right.do you think for one moment in your life that fx canadian tamils are going to behave this way in canada/US?.I wish i could speak to you about it in detail.Do you think a puny 5'-9'' dark skinned guy has a chance against some white canadian who is 6'-3''?.Right now Canada is a big country with a lot of resources and it is interesting to see what will happen if it faces a major environmental disaster in future where resources will become limited.

Srilankan said...

Thushanthi-We are a little island.If we were the size of canada..then we have more than enough space for a tamil EElam..beelam whatever...But this rot is going to occupy most of the landmass and coastline.See the root to this is pure jealousy that since the world is moving towards one cohesive unit without borders some people are worried that finally more and more sinhala people are going to share "their way of life" which was previously limited to them.

SL said...

upul rat, you dont know the history more then 100 years ago? Is that why your giving history 88 years ago? you donky. go back to tamilnadu. lol

Sam Perera said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sam Perera said...

upul aka Revy,

Ok, nice facts, it is coming from a self-serving website called "Tamil Sangam Fact Book." Did you read the very same article you refer to. I bet you didn't. The following are the gaping holes in your inferences of the history as well as your “reference.”

1) The title of article says, "Thamil Eelam in the Last Millennium." starting from 1000 AD. Thefore, to begin with your "article" refers to events starting from 1000 ACE not 600 BCE.

2) The "article" itself has zero references to the sources. Just like you and I, the author did not live for 1000s of years to witness the events. Therefore, the "author" should be getting this information from some other historical journal, inscription etc; most certainly multiple independent sources are required to backup each other.

3) The subtitle for the article is "From Rajarajan to Pirabakaran." Not only it is hilarious, it proves the very self-serving nature of the article.

Now that you have some idea of credibility, or lack thereof of your own version of history, I suggest you to spend more time reading the history of Sri Lanka before you start stating facts like gospel. Alternatively, you can enjoy your time among other crass Eelamist at LNP in your current style. Also make sure to not to make a jester out of yourself with fake knowledge.

Skywalker said...

Its good to see our friend Upul is trying to present some "proof" after convincing himself he cannot fool the bloggers here by just jabbering some historical "stories" in his dream.

Further to points raised by Sam,

1) Can you find and present any reasonable & balanced proof of your claim of 2500 years of Jaffna kingdom of tamils?? Any independent historical facts? or archiological proofs?

2) Even in your article, in the made up story by some individual where does it mention 2500 years?

It marely says a history of past 1007 years.

3) Are you referring a srilankan tamil + indian invasions in da history? I thought you gonna prove a unique srilankan native Tamil homeland which had its kingdom around jaffna.

Then how does "Arya Chakravarthi" fit in your fairy tale? As i know he is an extension to the Indian " Pandyan Empire" at that time who landed in SL as invaders, probably invading any existing SL native tamil community as well, so to claim your facts are you gonna put him too in your basket?

chek; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Chakaravarthi

4) In your loong past history how and from where did your ancestors landed/migrated here in SL?

Now dont come and tell us the historical details related to prince Vijaya(m) or Ravana(m) or even prehistoric humans are all your ancestors.

Stop joking men. Please argue and present serious facts.

Others , any input to this?
thnks.

Srilankan said...

some wonderful news!!!.Canada will be experiencing temperatures of minus 20deg..how fantastic!!

Srilankan said...

i would be happier if it reaches minus 50 degrees!!:):)

Thushanthi said...

I am sorry, But what is the relevance the Canadian temperature has to this blog??

NOLTTE=Peace said...

See how LTTE payrolled BBC Tamils put the following,

"Will kill thousands" SLA chief

The head of the Sri Lankan army says the military aims to kill three thousand Tamil Tiger rebels over the next six months. "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sinhala/news/story/2007/12/071230_killing_thousands.shtml

The BBC goons have twisted the words to deliver a different hidden message to turn international opinion against Sri Lanka.
http://www.defence.lk/new.asp?fname=20071230_05

onecountry said...

noltte=peace:

I think our leaders are not diplomatic. You should never utter the word "kill" during this festive times. Instead, best thing for the army chief to say is that he is praying for end of this war to stop further loss of life. He should say that he pray for LTTE leaders to have courage to lay down arms to prevent further loss of life. Instead, he goes beating chest which can easily be twisted around. When do we learn?

onecountry said...

This killing speach is good in front of your own troops. Not in front of reporters. Reporters should hear love and kindness from him. He should tell that how he survived on attempt on his life.

tangara said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tangara said...

Tamils of Eelam are the original inhabitants of that area, we have in excess of 2500+ history of living there


Let me reprahse it...
No one except Veddhas lived here when Sinhalese arrived in Sri Lanka 2500 years ago..
LTTE lives in a web of Lies....

This UPULAM guy lives in a dream...And his Master of History is anton balasingham...

verbatim said...

Tangara,

"Let me reprahse it...
No one except Veddhas lived here when Sinhalese arrived in Sri Lanka 2500 years ago..
LTTE lives in a web of Lies...."

Take a map of india and srilanka and explain how could the bengali/sinhala vijaya would have crossed thousand mile sea before tamils who had only about 20 miles to cross.(even disregarding the use of adam's bridge)

the foundation of your history is based on such idiotic premises.

your slip is showing.. :)

GoldenEagle said...

All the LTTE supporters believe in the LTTE's version of Lanka's history. They are alone in this regard. They will never agree with the real history of lanka with the rest of the world accepts as fact, cause it shows that the NE is not the historical homeland of Tamils. The rest of the world knows, believes and accepts that the Sinhalese were the first to bring civilization into Lanka. Before they arrived there were only the jungle dwelling Veddahs(Yakshas).

The Tamils established the first permanent kingdom(Jaffna) in 1216 AD on stolen land. The Sinhalese moved south because of repeated South Indian invasions. The NE is in fact the orginal homeland of the Sinhalese, who were forced to abandon it and move further south due to repeated South Indian attacks.

The fact is that the Sinhalese kings ruled the whole island from their Capital through out most of Lanka's history with brief interruptions from South Indian invasions. Archeology proves that.

GoldenEagle said...

verbatim

Too bad that archeology shows that the oldest cities in Lanka were built by the Sinhalese. You don't like it? Too bad, deal with it.

verbatim said...

Defencewire,

you are doing an excellent job in presenting info so we dont have rely on propaganda (of both sides)

Many people here are preoccupied with kill ratio of LTTE cadres. But to calculate the kill ratio we also need to reliably learn the casualties faced by the military so far (since 2005). If you are permitted can you post the actual casualty numbers faced by the three forces since 2005.

thank you
verbatim

verbatim said...

GE,

"Too bad that archeology shows that the oldest cities in Lanka were built by the Sinhalese. You don't like it? Too bad, deal with it."

Too bad it was said so by sinhala archaelogists. :)

Let me hear your explanation of how sinhalese would have reached the island before tamils who lived in stone's thro distance (geographically speaking).

Tamils who wrote their grammar book 3000 years ago were scratching their nuts unable to cross 20 mile sea for another 2000 years. (1500 years after Vijaya showed how to cross the seas). That is your history and cant you understand why we are (and the world) is laughing at your explanation of history (how sinhalese reached the islands before tamils).

Explain it with the map to some foreigner, if you wanna be a comedian in your domicile. :)

verbatim said...

Switching gears to defense matters

who got the short end of the stick in the mannar battles?

Is it the LTTE cadres who can take cover in bunkers and take pot shots at the soldiers venturing near them?

or is it the gosl soldiers who have venture into booby trapped areas. They have to avoid jonny battas, fire from LTTE cadres hiding in bunkers and avoid mortars/artillaries raining on them.

Thushanthi said...

In my opinion, it is not that relevant as at present whether the first race to habituate the island is Tamil or Sinhalese. The fact of the matter is, that the Sinhalese has now become the majority and all we need to concentrate now is to live in harmony with each other and concentrate our energies to resolve issues which comes along in a diplomatic non-violence forum, which will undoubtedly assist in the development of the country as well.

If you look at the history of the US, according to the argument at present, none of the present 'Amricans' have a stake in the country other than the idians who lived, when Columbus, landed long time back. The Indians were slaughtered in mass scale and their land forcibly taken, and their rights were not at all recognised, till a few years back. These things have happened all over the world. Even at present, despite all the white man's preachings re. human rights, the black find it difficult to compete equally with the whites sometimes. If you take present England, the whites have such a snobbish attitude towards the black and dark skinned people like us. This is why I say that the Tamils are a privileged minority, cause no Sinhalese looks 'down' on a Tamil as an inferior race. Throughout human history, the conqueror has reaped the land of the conquered. In this context, I really fail to see the relevance of who was in power 2500 years back. If all the ethnicity's of the world who feel discriminated by the majority starts demanding for a piece of land that they live in, based on history, then the world will only belong to the Africans, since all human beings are supposed to have descended from them.

My opinion is that we all must think of as Sri lankans and not Sinhalese/Tamil. Why cant we?

verbatim said...

Thushanthi,

your intentions are noble. But unfortunately, tamils were killed for being tamils in successive pogroms starting from 1958. They were not spared their lives because they were sri lankans.

Even now MR regime is resorting to silent genocide in north and ethnic cleansing in east. Victims are chosen because they are tamils and they are not spared because they are sri lankans.

Most of the sinhalese mistakenly believe that they are the sole rightful children of the island based on idiotic historic premises (such as the one I just elucidated). Peace will dawn on the island when all children of the island are treated equally, not in words (like Tamil being the official language), but in deeds (like prosecuting army personnel who have committed civilian massacres).

Skywalker said...

Thushanthi,

Agreed.

Why it is necessary to answer these claims of "2500 years" of "Tamil Homeland" or "Jaffna Kingdom" is because some extremists take it as THE basis for Ealam.

Or simply they have created or twisted the history to have their own reasons.

It is necessary to defend against these historical invasions as much as physical or geographical invasions to the Srilankan nation.

Sam Perera said...

verbatim,

Even though, I am against making this blog a one about History of Sri Lanka, I am compelled to respond to LTTE’s attempts to perpetuate their lies.

“Too bad it was said so by sinhala archaelogists”

Do names Wilhelm Ludwig Geiger, E.F.C. Ludowyk, R. L Brohier, H.C.P. Bell sound Sinhalese. Archeology is not fiction. Regardless whether it is Sinhala or Tamil, works of archeology need some evidence to backup the statements. Once again, before you come up with your own inverted versions of history like gospel, spend little time to read.

“Let me hear your explanation of how Sinhalese would have reached the island”

Have you heard of an ancient method of transporting called sailing? If sailing is not good enough for you, can you tell us how the people in Maldives Islands settled there, also they have a language very similar to Sinhala? If your hypotesis is right, then there can’t be any human settlement in Maldives.

With my greatest respect to Tamils and their many positive contributions to Sri Lankan culture, I would like to ask the LTTE Terror Supporters why there is no single significant monument in Sri Lanka built by a “Tamil King.” If you really want to engage in a meaningful discussion regarding who was where, we can delve in to many documented evidence and countless archeological evidence all over Sri Lanka, including Jaffna. However, I strongly believe that such past is irrelevant for peaceful coexistence today and tomorrow. In any case, this blog is not the appropriate place to discuss archeology and history.

verbatim said...

Sam Perera,

Sailing or whatever, the question was how could Vijaya cross thousand mile sea before tamils could cross twenty mile sea. Take a map and explain it with time lines to some foreigner (who in your belief hasn't heard about LTTE's historical lies :).

Your slip is showing very widely :))

verbatim said...

Sam Perera,

When Rev. Mahanama Thero sat down to write mahavamsa, his contemporary in tamilnadu was writing about Thirukkethesvaram (Mannar) and Thirukkonesvaram (Trinco), and how come Rev. Mahanama Thero didnt mention about these sivan temples?

Is it because these places were outside the kingdom Rev. Mahanama Thero was residing at the time? (Or those areas were occupied by tamils)

This is the second question, you dont need to answer this until you become capable of answering the first one :)

btw, I wasnt going to comment on history or archaelogy. But today I joined this blog to repudiate some comments that ignores geography.

Sam Perera said...

verbatim,

While I am not in a position to imagine how Tamils thought three millenniums ago, we all know that there are many cultures around the world who has mastered sailing and of course venturing beyond theirs normal domains. One possibility is that the ancestors of Sinhalese are more adventurous than South Indian inhabitants in that time (I am pointing out to a possibility). Just look abound the world, ask how Vikings settled in Iceland long before Intuits.

GoldenEagle said...

verbatim

"Too bad it was said so by sinhala archaelogists."

That is a blatant lie. There have been many foreign archeologists(some are still working) who all claimed that the Sinhalese arrived on the island before the Tamils.
-----------------------------------
"That is your history and cant you understand why we are (and the world) is laughing at your explanation of history (how sinhalese reached the islands before tamils)."

Another lie. The world is not laughing at us but at the LTTE propaganda history books which claim that the Tamils orginated in NE Lanka and THEN migrated to Tamil Nadu. Kinda similiar to when Hitler claimed the ancient Greeks who build the most advanced civilization in the Ancient world were Germanic blonde haired blue eyed Aryans. Plus if the world is laughing at us as you claim, then why do the history text books used in schools/colleges/universities all over the world say that the Sinhalese settled on the island before the Tamils?

Sam Perera said...

verbatim,

Verbatim, Mahavamsa is not the only source for history of Sri Lanka. Are you asking me to guess what Mahanama thought? Honestly, I don’t have such abilities like you do. Mahanama wrote Mahavamsa in 5th century CE. Mahavamsa has many notes about South Indian invasions before his time, I can say that much. However, to answer the question “was it significant for Mahanama to talk about the noted Sivan temples” is beyond my abilities. Wish I can do some time travel.

GoldenEagle said...

Many LTTEers think that the Sinhalese fully believe of the Mahavamsa. This is simply not true.

The Mahavamsa does have exaggerations in it(ie: men uprooting palm trees with bare hands and using it in combat) but the overall recording of events of the island's history is accurate.

Eranda said...

"When Rev. Mahanama Thero sat down to write mahavamsa, his contemporary in tamilnadu was writing about Thirukkethesvaram (Mannar) and Thirukkonesvaram (Trinco), and how come Rev. Mahanama Thero didnt mention about these sivan temples?
"

verbatim,

Buddhism introduce to island way after the Sinhalese established the civilization.

Therefore, why or why not these places include in the Mahawamsa is irrelevant while we discussing who established a civilization first in the Island.

Skywalker said...

Verbatim,

To your question;
"Tamils who wrote their grammar book 3000 years ago were scratching their nuts unable to cross 20 mile sea for another 2000 years..."
I think you better ask this from tamils who you beleived to have lived in that time in south india, or to get a more practical answer ask from a professional who has done research on this. There could be many number of reasons why they couldnt or why they DIDNT cross the sea.

If they did, as you might say it is more likely they must have reached the island in somewhare close to Mannar as it is the narrowest part in sea, ..

Also it is likely to have more and more occurences of travelling in between two lands more than just once.

If so ..... why didnt they established their capital close to the main port of mannar which is very much closer to their mother India, but in Jaffna penninsula? Why they have moved their kingdom far away to Jaffna without any apparent reason? (not close to main port, no threat from anybody in the island)

Is it because when they landed there was a kingdom already here somewhere like north-central part of the island (in the early part of SL history, as commonly beleived) and they wanted to be located in a more comfortable area in terms of SECURITY by going further away from south kingdom?

One more thing, do not assume the inhabitants of srilanka or specially the Sinhalese were direct descendents from Vijaya. There were and there must have few other sources including tribal communities like "Yaksha" and "Naga", who lived in the island from early ages probably who had links to prehistoric era.

I am just trying to see a logic here and i am no historian unfortunately.

Thnks.

Moshe Dyan said...

Verbatim, I like your logical analyses; very few people in Lanka can reconcile "news" and views with logic.

Historically, there is no reason to believe SL was not inhabited by Dravidians before the Aryans came. Scientifically Sinhalese have no roots in India or SL. Based on DNA testing Sinhalese were traced to the Greeks (Yavanas), Northers Iranians (Saka people) and Southern Russian (Kamboja people)communities making the lion story a myth.

On the other hand Tamils and other Dravidians are traced to eastern aboriginals like ausi aboriginals/Veddhas(pronto-australis) and those africans (negroids) who moved east a very long time ago (known as Negrotis??).

However it does not matter who were here first; what matters is the majoritarian rule today. It is like the US, Canada, Australia ,etc.

There were no continuing Tamil settlements in Sri Lanka for 2500 years, continuing Tamil settlements started only in the 1300s in Jaffna peninsula that again ended in 1505. However, there were heavy Sinhala influence on them and no historical account is made that they ever attacked the Sinhalese unlike previous Tamils. LTTE did the mistake of attacking them like the Maghas and lived to pay a very hefty price for it. Aryans were very good at warfare from historical days. That is how they ventured into Northern India, Persia, Euorpe, etc. etc. WW2 was a classic display of unruly Aryans in the German camp and the Russian camp; WW2 killed more Aryans than Jews!

The war strategy in the past was genocide just as the europeans used against american red indians so you can't blame the Aryan kings of Lanka.

The most important fact about Sri Lanka's Sinhala domination is the fact that it always remained independant of India. This is the same situation as in Japan Vs. China; Britain Vs. France, Malaya Vs. Indonesia, Australia Vs New zealand. All these islanders kept their empire amidst massive populations just across the sea. In fact Sri Lanka is fighting the same battle today in a different way!!

Tamils still do not have a cultural base in Sri Lanka. All Tamil cultural stuff are made in Tamil Nadu. Nothing in SL; nothing was ever made in SL!!

On top of that the Tamil population is steadily declining in Sri Lanka and will be immaterial in the years to come if their emigration rate continues at today's rate. Ask any Tamil honestly whether they want to live in SL in peace or joing their family and friends in Canada. Their answer is simple and you know that.

On defence matters, SL forces are surely winning the war. This is also confirmed how the LTTE asked their saviors - the NGOs to leave Mullaitivu supposedly "for the fear of their safety"!! haha

I agree that the SL forces are not fighting with the same vigour as the LTTE. SLAF can do much much more in killing tigers both in FDLs and beyond. Govt. is concerned about Tamil people including mainly the LTTE. They now want to force the ill-fated 13th amendment with Anadasangaree as the N-E administrator expecting to stop further killings.

This is a very unintelligent decision mainly to satisfy India.

War must be left to the generals and poiticos must get out it.

In the Mannar front specifically, the LTTE is taking a very heavy beating. The Mannar Bishop who was always on the LTTE side requested a ceasefire from the govt for x-mas so that Mannar tigers can have a breather and to make the unsuccessful boxing day arms imports a success!! If the tigers are not losing, they won't ask for temporary breathers.

Another fact is the sinking in of the realities of 2007. After losing the east and all weapons ships tigers cannot be at their peak. On the SLA front, they are getting the biggest ever defence budget with fancy weapons from many different sources not only from India. TRO funds do not flow as before; that is millions of dollars.

This disparity alone can wipe the LTTE out. Tamil civilian sources connected to Vanni says that hospitals are already overflowing with LTTE wounded and many medical huts have come up across Vanni (there are at least five battlefronts). Tamilnet has gone silent about the ongoing battles as it does when things go grossly against them like sinking of their ships (never reported).

TropicalStorm said...

Interesting discussion here, but weightage is lacking on what the international community considers a priority; preserving democracy.
On that point SL has proven itself as a nation deeply committed to democratic norms, irrespective of failures which too are side-effects of the same imperfect system. Unfortunately our politicians have made it a life style of abusing the weaknesses of democracy and the greater voting public have failed to re-inforce the counter-measures that make this institution such a success in other nations. But the generations are changing and so is tolerance towards waywards politicians; case in point, treatment meted out to Merv the Perv.

These are examples of the directionality of a nation. It can talk, but its actions speak louder, and the actions of the wider population that is the emerging generation is well in line with the general direction the world is taking. This strategic, long-term aspect is not lost on those who formulate policy in the distant seats of power,whether in Wash, DC or in London.

The present generation owes it to the next to wipe out the tiger infestation and hand over the nation for better management. It is imperative that the contemporary governments do not let off the compounded military initiative and leverage the advantages towards this goal.

verbatim said...

Sam Perera,

"One possibility is that the ancestors of Sinhalese are more adventurous than South Indian inhabitants in that time (I am pointing out to a possibility). Just look abound the world, ask how Vikings settled in Iceland long before Intuits."

Inuits of the arctic circle were from new world who lacked behind the modernity of the old world by many millenniums. To prove your hypothesis you will have to prove sinhala forefathers were far more advanced in modernity when compared to tamilians.

( Such a proposition is unlikely due to geographical contiguity and the fact tamilians had their grammar book ready 500 years before Vijaya set sail).

verbatim said...

skywalker,

You dont need to be a historian to understand likely scenarios.

Now go to maps.google.com and zoom to Mannar sea. You will clearly see many sandbars. Even though 20 mile is a swimmable distance, these sand bars would have aided early tamilian swimmers to cross the palks straits much more easily.

Now even if we discount the swimming possibility we can discuss next innovation in sea faring Kaddu Maram (tamil word became Katamaran in English). Kaddu Maram's would have been more than sufficient to reach the island in many places (including Jaffna) from Tamil nadu.


Sinhala ancescestors however would have had to wait until sailing is mastered for such a long journey.

verbatim said...

GE,

the international universities/historical books repeat what srilankan govt propagates as the history of the island. That is expected as they have zero stake in the historical claims espoused by the govt. Almost every bigname university has a dept for egyptology but how many do research on the history of this island?

You still havent answered how could sinhalese would have reached the island before tamils. :)

Eranda said...

"When Rev. Mahanama Thero sat down to write mahavamsa, his contemporary in tamilnadu was writing about Thirukkethesvaram (Mannar) and Thirukkonesvaram (Trinco), and how come Rev."


"Such a proposition is unlikely due to geographical contiguity and the fact tamilians had their grammar book ready 500 years before Vijaya set sail"

verbatim,

Above two statements post by you make me confused on when exactly Tamil forefathers wrote this grammar book. Could you please state the time period correctly that this book written; so readers can understand your point of the argument more clearly.

Thanks.

verbatim said...

Moshe dyan,

Let me leave the historical questions aside and ask some questions that are relevant for your specialty.

The current campaign of 5 battle fronts is merely to show that the govt is doing something different than the Jayasikuru episode. However reality GOSL troops face on the battlefront are starkly similar or worse than those faced by Jayasikuru troops. For example Jayasikuru troops faced only 2 artilleries with limited ammunition. But the troops in the current campaign are facing 100 artilleries (according to Sarath Fonseka's interview) and stock piled ammunition. How much stockpile, you can calculate 10 ships bringing in ammunition for five long years?

LTTE artilleries are beyond the reach of most of the SLAF sorties. You may remember how SLAF claimed to have destroyed many artilleries in the eastern campaign but none of the recovered ones showed any signs of SLAF success.

artilleries are only part of the equation. Tigers now have much better tank killing capability and surely would have more stock piled explosives for booby traps.


Lets move beyond tactical level and more strategic level.

Why do the americans, the world's sole super power, is making deals with Sunni Iraqis? (after getting tired of fighting them)

Why did Israel with all the sophisticated technology beat a hasty retreat out of Lebanon.

Because both of them sensed quagmire awaiting them if they continue to fight.

Can you explain why Tigers cannot match at least the Hisbullah in their resistance?

The question is why do you think that the govt forces are not facing a quagmire in Vanni?

In my opinion (just my opinion only, so hold your barks), Tigers cannot be defeated by the govt forces. Final peace will have to be with a deal made with the tigers. (like Americans are making deals with Sunni Iraqies). If you need more information, Dr. Chaliland might explain to you in more detail why govt forces will fail to vanquish the tigers militarily.

Unceasing waves haven't ceased. :)

verbatim said...

Tropicalstorm,

Srilanka has become classic case study for what not to do in a democracy.

We Ceylonese could have become first world country (like Singapore) instead of the current fratricidal mayhem, if the sinhala leaders didnt find bogeyman in tamils for all the economic ills faced by the newborn nation. "Sinhalese have landed in the island before tamils" in one of the many myths sinhala leaders invented/used to portray tamils as the cause for all ills suffered by sinhala aryans. Not much different from what Hitler has portrayed Jews for his aryan superiority theory.

Unfortunately no sinhala leader stood up and demolished these myths to unify the nation. The result is where we are today.

verbatim said...

Eranda,

both are different books/writings done at different times.

Many people cannot even want to admit the very clear story told by the picture of the geographical maps, so why trouble them more with books? :)

GoldenEagle said...

verbatim

"the international universities/historical books repeat what srilankan govt propagates as the history of the island. That is expected as they have zero stake in the historical claims espoused by the govt. Almost every bigname university has a dept for egyptology but how many do research on the history of this island?"

What a weak answer. First it was the Sinhalese archeologists and now it is Western countries are following the orders of SL when it comes to the history? Get real man, there has been a sizable number of Western archeologists that worked in Lanka and they all say that the Sinhalese civilizations are the oldest in Lanka. Were they under the pay of the SL government to report as they did?

You seem to buy into conspiracy theories too much. Tell me, do you believe the world is run by a handful of super rich men plotting in a smoke filled room? Or 9/11 was an inside job? Or that the Lochness monster exists?

GoldenEagle said...

verbatim

"We Ceylonese could have become first world country (like Singapore)"

You are losing it mate. Singapore is a city, it was always going to be much easier to develop(roads, ports, electricity, infrastructure) than a country the size of Sri Lanka.

Eranda said...

verbatim

Here is the time periods relevant to Sri Lanka and why your statements generating confusion among the readers.

Vijayas arrival in 543 BCE and you claim in one statement Tamil grammar book written 500 years prior to this wich is 1043 BCE.

Now, another statement you indicate this book written in same time period that Mahavmsa wrote, which is the 5th century.

Do you see now how much of time deference in your statement.

Note: I’m not trying to discredit you, but point out my confusion regarding your arguments.

Sam Perera said...

verbatim,

What is the connection between a book of grammar and some communities mastery in navigation? Both Polynesians and Phoenicians were master ship builders. They traveled far distances in their sailing ships. What has that to do with a book of grammar. What about Vikings? What we all hear about is their mastery in sailing, not any book of grammar and literary contributions.

Now back to how Sinhalese could have reached Sri Lanka. As I said earlier, only time travel will be able to help you. We have enough historical records of who arrived where and who built what in Sri Lanka. None of them say that Tamils were there when Sinhalese came. However, some of them says that Yakshas (Vedda) were there. Why would somebody say that only Yakshas were there? These are mere questions you will never find an accurate answer. However, the Sinhala Civilization has left it's footprint at every corner of the country with monuments and monumental irrigation feats. Also Sinhalese are the majority in Sri Lanka for thousands of years.

Let me turn the table abound, do you have any documented evidence of Tamils reaching Sri Lanka before Sinhalese? Having a book of grammar somewhere is not sufficient evident to support such a claim. (Yet, I want to know what these books are. Please provide us with more information)

GoldenEagle said...

Verbatim

"LTTE artilleries are beyond the reach of most of the SLAF sorties."

Is that why a 122mm gun from the LTTE was destroyed recently? I bet you are going to dismiss this as a lie by the GOSL. So predictable.

Eranda said...

verbatim,

I see you already clarify my confusion. By any chance could you state the this two books names? It is very much interesting to know if you are correct Tamil grammar book exist 500 years before the Buda’s death.

GoldenEagle said...

The Sinhalese records are the only ones that mention the Veddahs(Yashas) who happen to be the original inhabitants of the island.

The Sinhalese built their first capital city(Anuradhapura) of the island circa 500 BCE. The Tamils built their first capital city on the Island in 1216 AD. Thats a 1700 year difference.

GoldenEagle said...

The Sinhalese records are the only ones that mention the Veddahs(Yashas) who happen to be the original inhabitants of the island.

The Sinhalese built their first capital city(Anuradhapura) of the island circa 500 BCE. The Tamils built their first capital city on the Island in 1216 AD. Thats a 1700 year difference.

verbatim said...

I mentioned about the grammar book timeline to prove that tamils were well settled into their civilization ( and not sitting on the trees), so they would have had sufficient sea faring capacity to beat the sinhala forefathers to the island.

The next book written thousand years later mentioned places of worship in Mannar and Trinco, that probably were outside the world view of Rev. Mahanama Thero. (ie outside sinhala kingdom)

verbatim said...

Moshe,

"LTTE did the mistake of attacking them like the Maghas and lived to pay a very hefty price for it. "

First Maghas too were Kalingas (like Vijaya), and from what I understand it is not the Maghas who suffered.

LTTE didnt attack the sinhalese unprovoked, it is born as the reaction to violences unleased on tamils when tamils non-violently protested the discrimination faced by them.

verbatim said...

when you find the answers (that are satisfactory to you) to the questions I have raised you will realize there is always another side to the coin.

adios

NOLTTE=Peace said...

Onecountry,

I agree with you whole heartedly about Gen Fonseka's speech.

We lack such qualities, when handling media..

They have started to call it "Gun Ho" culture now..

GoldenEagle said...

verbatim

You are Upul is disguise. When you are here Upul is gone. You came back with a new handle to debate about another topic.

Upul next time use your real handle.

tangara said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tangara said...

Verbatim,


The whole of Sri Lanka is a showcase of Sinhalese civilisation in the Island for couple of milliania.

Where in Tamilnadu, there is nothing to show to the world what the Tamil speaking people of that part of the world achived for those "thousand years" except for some literacy stuff.?


Now to your other question..
[Take a map of india and srilanka and explain how could the bengali/sinhala vijaya would have crossed thousand mile sea before tamils who had only about 20 miles to cross.(even disregarding the use of adam's bridge)
]

Take a map of Indonesia and Australia...For thosands of years Indonesians couldn't find Australia that was their back yard..It took some Europeans to come to this part of the world and occupy it..Indonesians are now sitting duck cursing Australians for all their misfortuntes.


It is the same reason that you guys could not find Sri Lanka in your own back yard and now cursing Sinhalese for all your ills.Please don't do that.



Your better have more "Verbatims" this year to get your facts rights.


Sam Perera said...

verbatim,

In the mind of a conspiracy theorist, anything is a possibility yet unsubstantiated. Perhaps we should consider early existence Tamil civilization in Sri Lanka of a parallel universe. It is also possible that aliens chased everybody from Sri Lanka without a trace and settled Sinhalese overnight. It is also possible that, the same aliens erased the million year old book of grammar from the memories of people as well as any hard copy. It is also possible the people who come up with stories about books etc has no evidence to support their claims. Only time travel can confirm these possibilities.

ta-ta for now

tangara said...

I hope other tamil friends in this blog will understand my comments..

I have my best respect for True Tamils.

We need to get the facts right...

Moshe Dyan said...

Verbatim,

You did make a few correct points. Especially what you said aboutIsrael and Lenbanon is 100% correct. Many fail to see why Israel quickly goes for peace after warfare. This is to consolidate their poisiton and to stop the retaliation that is awaiting them!!

But I do not agree that LTTE is capable as the Hizbollah; LTTE is indeed cut-off from its mother - Tamil Nadu both physically and logistically.

LTTE cannot store 5 years' imports of artilery safely away from SLAF sorties. And LTTE artilery is not beyond SLAF capabilities. A single Mig-27 carrying 8 Mark-80 type bombs can vandalise any artillery poisiton and any artilery deposit anywhere. Infact even a Mi-24 can do so.

It should be appreciated that unlike the Eastern battle, the SLAF jets were thus far not used against LTTE FDLs but the army commander promised SLAF attacks on all LTTE positions in the future.

As I explined to Upul, the present military campaign is different to what CBK did. CBK's campaign did not harm the LTTE's ability to bring weapons shipments; they had almost the entire 510km of shores to do so in the east.

CBK's campaign also did not target LTTE's scarce resource - manpower/womenpower/childpower. Today's attrition war clearly targets them. Although the Tamil Diaspora can contribute financially and orally, none of them can contribute to the LTTE what they really need - fighters.

LTTE has stationed its few men along the FDLs thus exposing its interior which is run by children and women.

With the withdrawel of NGOs from Mullaitivu, the govt. has another trump card to play. That is food and medicine supplies to Vanni!!

What can the tigers do to tackle that? Nothing. I think the message to the LTTE is clear - PERISH, PERISH and PERISH.

Also the defence secretary has called for the abbroigation of the CFA. Why?

To launch unprovoked, proactive large scale attacks on the LTTE. He knows he is popular and is using that to rap the President and others diplomatically who follow a "wait and see" policy.

As regards Vijaya and Magha, they were from different races. Magha was dravidian and Vijaya, if he was truely the ancestoral father of the Sinhala race, must be Aryan.

I do believe the Mahabarata which is highly illusionary and illogical. How can Ravana who is described as an aggressive, masculine and violent fellow not conjugate with Sitha? In reality they may even had children together.

Therefore I do not believe the Lion story either. A lion and a woman cannot mate, fullstop. A monkey cannot keep it tail buring forso long to burn forests in Lanka! If a Cupid fires an arrow, whatevr the intentions are the target will surely die! A god the size of a human cannot travel on a mouse!

So stop using Mahabarata stories to humiliate the Sinahalese. Its simply not true.

tangara said...

http://www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/8949

http://www.asiantribune.com/index.php?q=node/8948

http://www.army.lk/morenews.php?id=9525

tangara said...

MosheDyan,

Ten guys like you in the government can turn this country around ...

Have you ever thought of joining politics..?

Any way keep up the good work...

GoldenEagle said...

There are two main reasons for populations to search, expand and settle in new territory. One is population pressure and the other is fleeing from persecution.

Vijay came to the island in 543 BCE, but let’s forget about the “43” part for a moment and concentrate on 500 BCE. The world population in 500 BCE is estimated to have been between 60 million and 100 million(depending on who does the estimates). Let’s take the middle road and assume it was 80 million. Today the world’s population is 6.5 billion and Tamils make up about 1% of it. Rewind back to 500 BCE when the population was 80 million, 1% of 80 million is 800,000. So we can safely estimate that the population of Tamil Nadu in 500 BCE was roughly about 800,000. The Size of Tamil Nadu is about 130,000 square kilometers, so that puts the population density at 6 people per square kilometer in 500 BCE. That is very low population pressure because the land is big enough to support them all, so there was little or no incentive to look outwards for land to settle.

Once the population density reached over 30 people per square kilometer that’s when the people start looking for other lands because the ancient farming techniques were not as productive as the modern ones so supporting larger populations was tougher back then than it is now.

Vijay and his followers on the other hand were persecuted and banished, so that’s what forced them to search somewhere to settle down. In the process he found Lanka, and it was he and his followers were to first to mention the Yakshas (Veddahs). Apart from the Sinhalese records no one else mentions the Veddahs.

Take a look at America, the Pilgrims came to America because they were persecuted, while the German, Italian, Irish, Polish and Greek immigrants came to America during 1890-1910 period looking for a better life because the population pressure in their homelands was high hence high poverty rates.

GoldenEagle said...

So unlike Vijay the Tamils in Tamil Nadu did have an incentive to expand into new territory in 500BCE. This changed as time went on as South Indian invasions into Lanka started to become more frequent.

Srilankan said...

thushanthi...no direct relevance to defence matters but i want canadians to "enjoy" "paradise" during this wonderful,enjoyable festive season.Obiter dicta you could say...

tangara said...

GoldenEagle,

What an asset you are to the blog..

Keep up the good work...I strongly suggest some of you guys to indulge in politics...Then only we will see real development in the country..We are cursed to see the likes of M. Silva in Parliment.

Srilankan said...

nice discussion on history.One fact is obvious..if roles were reversed today and our army had 10,000 body bags.(promised by "bala the para balla"-a borrowed phrase-not my own) no one will be speaking to us about Slankan history today except maybe verbatim.Instead what we could be faced with is another "people slicing" ceremony in a poor farming village in anuradhapura courtesy of the LTTE.We owe our lives,pride and thanks to our defense forces wherever in this world we live.May god protect them all and return each and everyone of them to their families after this task they have to perform agaist a murderous organisation is over.

Srilankan said...

Tangara,
the hon president is not a fool.He prefers not to spend a large quantity of money we dont have and put the country through another election and let a seperate debacle unfold making him fight on 2 fronts.As you know some politicians in the opposition are such "patriots" that they will sacrifice their lives for the country.

tangara said...

Goldeneagle,

In the wake of your comments about demographics, I have to withdraw my views about Indonesians..It is obvious no asians were looking for land grabbing 2000 years ago...

tangara said...

http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2007/12/23162_image_headline.html

tangara said...

SriLankan,

I meant no disrespect to the current government..When reading some of the comments by bloggers, it is obvious they are more capable than some of the ministers in the govt..

I understand that the president is walking on a tight rope.

Some of the bloggers are suitable as the next generation of politicians in the country.

Srilankan said...

Tangara..i dont think you or i can ever fill the hon presidents shoes.My god the tightrope he is walking is unbearable..I wouldn't want people here to go into politics.I think they should first take care of themselves(a good education and job) and then help their own family followed by relatives/country any which way they can.We really need to build a very large SLankan-sinhalese population overseas.The stability of our country rests on this.If we dont do this every tom dick and harry working in every take out overseas will think it is his "moral right" to interfere..obviously for entertainment purposes.

Moshe Dyan said...

Tangara and others.

I do not personally think that the President is a great man, of course he is the greatest we ever had.

He lacks in many fronts.

He has completely given up on the economy which finances the war; this mistake might cost the war!.

I do not wish to make this a political forum. But to answer your concerns, we need a better set of politicians capable of mathematical reasoning and bold enough ones to call a duck a duck.

If he can send Mervyn packing, then I may change my view. War is not everything after all.

From another pov I think, time is up for the incumbent. Ratnasiri will certainly do a better job than Mahinda.

After winnng the war Sajith premadasa should be made the president.

It is like cricket and golf; you slide and you are dropped in favour of an upcoming player. Its war today, economy tommorrow. You need the right club.

Ranil/Anura should be kept as the "basic trainers" to teach politicians what not to do.

Srilankan said...

Moshe Dyan..i am not an SLFP supporter :)but i am just simply tired of this LTTE-black white pink'n'grey tiger/chicken/blue whale rot and want this to finish as quickly as possible.Your right the war is not everything but then protecting peoples lives comes very close to everything and the brave defense forces are doing just that.He has been in office for just 2 years now..lets give him a chance and see what he can do in 5 yrs. First things first.I think your a young man and if you have lived with this murderous Sh*t for 30 yrs you may change your mind.

GoldenEagle said...

Happy New year guys. May 2008 be full of luck for our forces.

Upul said...

As I said earlier in one of the two blog, irrationality, hocus-pocus and superstitions rule the day. This is why an argument, that "Sinhalese came here first" would still be taken seriously. This is indicative of the backwardness of modern sinhala society.

Nagas have been identified as Tamils from the Mahavamsa. To claim Anuradhapuram civilization was exclusively sinhalese is another blatant white washing of history.

For those who claim ancient tamil speakers didn't do anything except, writing a grammar book 3000+ years ago, please look at the granite structures strewn through TE, TN, Andhra, Kerala Coast and neighboring states.

To add to this Tamil wasnt always exclusively hindu. There were times, when Tamils of India and Sri Lanka were mostly Buddhist.

Sam Perera said...

"irrationality, hocus-pocus and superstitions rule the day."


This is one of the best descriptions of upul aka Revy aka verbatim's concocted inverted version of history.

GoldenEagle said...

"Nagas have been identified as Tamils from the Mahavamsa."

They were identified as "Demadas" in earlier part of the Mahavamsa and then later as "Damilas" not Nagas.

GoldenEagle said...

"To claim Anuradhapuram civilization was exclusively sinhalese is another blatant white washing of history."

You are the one who is lying. It was founded by the Sinhalese. The archeological evidence backs it up, for there are tons of Sinhalese(elu) inscriptions in the site of the old ruined city, it as Sinhala as any city can be. There was a small part of the city that was created to house foreign merchants (mediterreans,Chinese, Persians, South Indias, Malays, North Indians etc) as this fact was alos noted by a Foreign Chinese traveler. This does not mean that Anuradhapura was founded and belonged to Mediterreans, Chinese, Persians, South Indias, Malays etc. Do you undertand?

GoldenEagle said...

Upul

So you decided to shed the verbatim handle I see. Who did you think you were fooling, anyone can see through your writing style. It stands out like a roman candle.

For Pete's sake get a life.

Srilankan said...

A very happy new year to all on this blog.May the new year bring peace and hope to all peoples of SLanka.

verbatim said...

Tangara,

sorry if I had hurt you. You dont need to make more fool of yourself.

That was not my intention. I was just testing the mettle of the self-proclaimed defense advisor to the govt. Based on what I think of the calibre of advisors this govt need, I think you will suite the job.

verbatim said...

Wish you a happy and peaceful new year to all of you guys/gals.
-verbatim

verbatim said...

GE,

I suggested to a potential career for you, as a comedian of history in your domicile. Looks like you exceed my expectations. You can be a comedian in anthropology too. :)

Let me suggest one more item for your history skit.
"Russians become russians only after the Russian language was developed, French became french only after french languague was developed, all these nations are idiots, but we sinhalese super intelligent nation of south asia have became sinhalese way way before sinhala language was developed."

:)

Sam Perera said...

verbatim aka upul aka Revy,

Since you get off the tangent to assign new jobs to others, in the absence of credible and coherent arguments, you should also be looking for a new job appointment.

Unfortunately two of your best fitting jobs are gone

1)Information Minister of the former Saddam Hussein regime held by Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf aka Comical Ali
2) Minister for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda for former Nazi Germany held by Paul Joseph Goebbels.

However there is one job you have very good chances in getting. That is to replace Rasaiah Ilanthirayan aka Marshall. Apparently, his lies are not even close to yours. However, you need to make sure to get that position before that organization is gone for good.

GoldenEagle said...

verbatim AKA upul

You can insult me all you want, but the real question is why do YOU come here?

You know you won't be able to convince the posters here to believe your LTTE propaganda point of view in a 1000 years, so why even try? Why waste your time?

Most people come here to get REAL news about the conflict not turn this into another pissing contest like LNP.

But what is the real reason YOU come here??????????????

The only logical answer for why many LTTE supporters are popping here is because their morale is flagging(at a group and individual level). You guys are hurting and demoralized on the inside so you come here to take swipes at and insult the Sinhalese or GOSL cause that will boost your own individual morale(temporarily) and cheer you up on the inside(temporarily). Then when the temporary boost of morale and cheer wears off you come again for another round.

So tell me, does it feel good to say "All Sinhalas are modayas and must die" to cheer you up on the inside temporarily? Is it worth the investment of your time?

nemesis said...

DW & all,

Wish you all a Safe & happy New year 2008!

May the triple jem & all the gods look over our forces (both overt & covert).

keep up the great work DW. You guys made a good impact in the little time you were online!

As i said on DN...Guys lets again try to keep politics, racism out of this blog. 2008 will be a very important year for the Sri Lankan Military, state & people.

So lets stick to defence matters.

Let the poor tiger loonies howl...its natural to be hysterical when the end looms in the horizon.

Renegade! said...

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
DW,Guys(repost)

Is it possible to give a breakdown of all the "classes"of vessels,used by the SLN,together with their numbers,if possible?or,atleast a link?-my mail is-rifi.skyline@gmail.com>>.much appreciated & keep up the good work,DW!thnkx..

Just Mal said...

We really need to break free from the Indian chains. Why can't we understand that India has always been our number one enemy. Their foreign policy is all about destabilising neighbours. Why don't we invite the Chinese to set up a base in Sri Lanka?

natarajan88 said...

Blaming India's hegemonic attitude is completely unwarranted.It is true that Tamil Tigers were offered covert support by india.But will the Indians ever forget the 'hegemonic' attitude of SL(under Ranasinghe Premadasa) which tied up and offered lots of ammunition to LTTE (!!!!) to drive out the Indian peace keeping force.For this act of betrayal only Sri Lanka continues simmer in civil war for 3 decades!!!

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