Sunday, April 27, 2008

TAF 'bombs' again

Two planes from the 'TamilEelam Air Force' bombed the general area of the 223 Brigade, Area HQ Weli Oya and a gun position highly inaccurately in another psychological bombing run around 1.40am today in the Weli Oya FDL. Only one soldier was injured in the bombing.

The planes retreated, flying just above the canopy of vegetation towards Mulaithivu South from where they operate a small landing strip. It is very difficult for the SLAF to engage these low flying planes in this sector due to vegetation, low-level flying etc.

The Zlin 143 TAF planes dropped 3 homemade gravity bombs. Before that, during almost the entire day yesterday, the LTTE fired volume after volume of artillery at the SLA FDL in Weli Oya killing 4 soldiers and injuring another 45. The Tigers kept moving the guns as is customary and an airstrike called in around 5pm did not stop the fire completely.

The Zlin 143 TAF operated aircraft and gravity bomb

Ground sources say the LTTE does not operate artillery positions. They do not construct billets or prepare an area as an artillery field to fire from. Instead, they tow and drag canons around closely followed by a truck full of several dozen rounds of artillery shells and fire from location to location as them move.

These 'Mobile Artillery' pads are difficult to hit as the window of opportunity for hitting them is low since their location cannot be pin pointed for long. Despite having several COIN aircrafts and the capacity to purchase more, the SLAF is handicapped with fast jet bombers who are good at raiding only Kilinochchi.

SLAF's FMA IA 58A Pucara in formation with SIAI-Marchetti SF.260TP

The Brazilian COIN Aircraft; the Super Tucano

Meanwhile, after a hugely unsuccessful and blundering performance at Muhamalai as the CO of the 53 Division, Brigadier and VIP protection Commando Officer Samantha Sooriyabandara has been removed from the post of Commander 53 Division. He has been replaced by the 55 Division Commander brigadier Kamal Gunaratne.

The 55 Division is now under one of the best and most highly committed officers; Brigadier and Special Forces Officer Prasanna Silva. Brigadier Silva took over command at a small function yesterday. His brilliant leadership and strategy led to the capture of Mavil Aru and Vakarai. His new task however, will be a considerable challenge especially against a determined and well entrenched foe in Jaffna.

111 comments:

onceinawhile said...

DW,

"Despite having several COIN aircrafts and the capacity to purchase more, the SLAF is handicapped with fast jet bombers who are good at raiding only Kilinochchi."

Y dont we base these planes smwhere close to action, like AAB? so as to cut down the time to get into action?And y the hell dont thet atleast consider using them if they r cheap as u mention?
Do they need a longer airstrip?

Sun Tzu's disciple said...

True--this is a psychological bombing run. Close to the Muhamalai defeat + Welioya artillery shower the ltte message to SL public(not GoSL, as GoSL knows it already)is possibly this:

1.We are still very much alive and kicking.
2.Our aircrafts are still intact.
3.We know where your positions are.
4.Your new high-flying fighter jets still cannot touch us.
5.Our supply lines are still comfortably open.
6.Dont believe all the baloney your Govt tells you.
7.(to IC)Look we have a functional airforce surviving onslaught by SLAF.
I am sure ltte brought these aircrafts mainly to serve in Psy-ops field.

Moshe Dyan said...

LTTE is panic-struck now; they fear a possible thrust from weli-oya to mullaitivu which is the MOST secret location it has.

They will do whatever to stop any possible advance.

agains a sorry tale for the SLAF.

i wonder anada sangari's plea to the prez. not to fly jets at night (that creates a deafening noise and fears civilians!!) had anything to do with this. if it had, this is downright stupidity.

DW,

thanks for the atricle but if jets cannot reach these tincan LTTE planes in time, how can slow flying planes reach them in time?

LTTE will very easily shoot these slow flying planes down.

LTTE uses both static and mobile arti. launchers. What we need is dedicated round the clock monitoring from the air, the ability of each force to communicate with each other and fast deployability of the SLAF.

Navindran said...

Defencewire, your blog again shows why its beat other defence news reporting source. No rubbish and propoganda.

I am still quite suprised that the TAF missed. If they are flying low, how can they miss with dead bombs.

As far as civilian deaths are concerend, they occur on both sides. Pro LTTE and Pro GOSL should stop wasting time denying that they are the perparators. The bus bomb is the work of the LTTE and the killing of the Father recently is the work of the SLA.

In both cases blaming the other parties and saying that they wanted sympathy is illogical.

The war has taken a new dimension where each side is holding some aces up their sleeve. Jeyaraj was killed, Karukaratenam was killed. After the Muhumalai debacle, Madhu was caputred. It could have been done later, however it was brought forward to reduce the effect of LTTE's victory. In response the Bus Bomb, again to reduce the effect of GOSL victory.

I am making a guess but LTTE will probabily want to trigger ethnic rioting. There are a number of colombo tamils who do not support the LTTE. Another black July would help the tamils decide to join and support the LTTE.

This year is the 25th Anniversary of Black July.

Navindran said...

Some say that the bombing is a propoganda victory for LTTE supporters. I can only imagine how stupid the writers have got. The aircraft is old news. Its like the use of artilery by the LTTE in 1999. The first time its was news then, it was another weapon in their arsenal. The LTTE is not worried about the propoganda effects anymore. They are using their new weapon sparingly and selectively. If anything its probabily for the GOSL supporters. It shows why some writer has said that.

I hope other writers can suggest constructive responses to the TAF like Defncewire has rather then worry whether LTTE supporters are celeberating.

Navindran said...

For the LTTE supporters and GOSL supporters be constructive else there are other blogs where the kind of bantering for the last post is allowed.

The LTTE has 3 new friends in terms of this war. The first is the cost of oil. Sri Lankan Armed forces including the Navy and airforce use alot of fuel. With the new mechanized division, alot of fuel is used in training etc. Hence the cost of maintaing the 3 forces will considerabiuly increase.

The cost of food especially rice, milk etc are going to go up like crazy as countries prevent exports and people are hoarding. This also adds to the burden to feeding a 200 000 defence force including the police and STF. They also have families. The displaced might also suffer as the world food program represntative for Sri Lanka said.

Lastly the weather and accompnying dieases have cause widespread viral outbreaks. The Spanish Influneza had killed more combatants that the first world war due to war causulties.

Urgent action including making living conditions better for soldiers are required. Food should be brought under the army's control and hording and black marketing should be a war crime. A fuel tax can be added to reduce the burden of the military for their fuel cost.

Sandun said...

Dfencewire,

"...emoved from the post of Commander 53 Division. He has been replaced by the 55 Division Commander brigadier Kamal Gunaratne.

The 53 Division is now under one of the best and most highly committed officers; ...."

53 division commander replace by 55 dividion commander. that means new 53 division commander is brigadier Kamal Gunaratne.

And then brigadier Prasanna Silva should be 55 division commandar,not 53.

Is that corect???

Pundey Eelam said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pundey Eelam said...

'TamilEelam Air Force' . DW please dont use this term. Even with ""
You can use the term Terrorist planes or LTTE planes. Even you can use Tin can Planes , just to add some twist to it :)

Thanks to you,we know some truth about the War.
Keep up the good work

Thanks,

Peter said...

Hello!
You want to know about CAS?

perein said...

DW-
Couple of points not too clear for me, wonder you can help.

a) Did radar manage to capture the air-born / landing place for LTTE planes?
a-2)Can firefind radar notify the locations or those heat immages of panes?

b)We do have units all over North now, could not we work out where about these planes were air born etc?

Looks like after the Jaffna event, LTTE is trying to put our forces in defensive rather than offensive.

There are lot of co-ordination happening from LTTE side.
This could means there are leader ship meeting happening regular basis for LTTE. Let's wait and get one of those couple of big fist to end the latest series of events.

Srilankan said...

Perein,
Very unlikely bro..because the planes were flying at tree top level.

Panhinda said...

/*
The Tigers kept moving the guns as is customary and an airstrike called in around 5pm did not stop the fire completely.
*/

I think people are getting tired of hearing excuses. All forces in co-ordination with one another must find a way to silence these guns. This has to be the top most priority.

Srilankan said...

Panhinda,
Very well said.This artillary is the only ingredient saving the LTTE.Once they are taken out it is a completely different ball game

chamal said...

"The Tigers kept moving the guns as is customary and an airstrike called in around 5pm did not stop the fire completely."

Does this mean that it was controlled at least? Then at least one of the guns must have been damaged or destroyed. We can't expect to take them all out at once of course, but even one less will be a blow for the LTTE, as it's their main weapon these days.

perein said...

Srilankan-
Bro, What about fire find radar using heat factor?

perein said...

DW-
The other factor is if the planes were flying tree top level (flying just above the canopy of vegetation), surely it was just distance away from firing from normal machine guns etc.
There is somthing not getting reveled at present!!

Sajith said...

It seems that tiger aircrafts are trying to distroy MBRL again...
Another unsuccesful mission..
Our fighters are too advance to hit LTTE targets i think we need something with low technology.. Instead I think the best thing is to strenghten the MI-24 squad so we can use them to intercept in flight.. or else rather than buying mig29s we can get few MI-35s which is superior than Mi24 and many capabilites...
And also it's time to locate few more radars to strenghten the air defence system too.. I think it's specially necessary to locate them around the northern part of the sri lanka... may be few around stragetically important FDLs... WE can give them the automatic firing capability as well.. Since this radars are installed on Mobile platforms we can easily move them away under a artillary fire... Currently only 70% of the country is covered by the Air defence system... Covering rest of the country is very important too.. Otherwise we're never going to find the LTTE's correct landing strips or hangers or any of thier planes...

Peter said...

"Our fighters are too advance to hit LTTE targets"

londonistan said...

Zlin 143 'pilots' were probably informed by spotters in Katunayaka when interceptors took off...clock starts ticking down to interception and death... they dropped their load and returned to the strip and the lorries from which they're transferred from bunker to strip. Probably a dummy run to test the ADS, their own adjustments to the bomb rack and to embarrass the SLAF (always good to replenish the coffers this last one).

If they truly wanted to test the SLAF response they would have launched more Zlins to target multiple locations simultaneously (which would have endangered some of their pilots). Their problem is probably the same as the SLAFs - not enough pilots trained for night time operations and lack of assets.

I get the feeling these foreign trained Zlin 'pilots' will never turn Black on us. They're more likely to take a Black tiger up with them and drop 'em off with a parachute... size of load is limited to capacity, so unlikely to be as devastating as AAB attack but then again.. there's a reason why SLAF haven't been releasing quality tape of their missions except on a ad hoc basis.

Rover said...

This is what I think on this air raid. Since the TAF didn't achieve most of its objectives, it is easy to call this a psy-ops mission. If TAF managed to hit an armory or kill some of our senior officers, this "psy-ops" mission could have easily become "a devastating strategic precision airstrike".

In other words, the primary mission was to make a devastating air strike and the secondary mission was psy-ops. The psy-ops mission is pretty much complete as soon as the planes were airborne.

Given that it did not turn out to be a devastating airstrike, and it fizzled, the LTTE would still want to make as much publicity out of it (highlighting the secondary mission). And ST-disciple has pointed out exactly what LTTE would now have wanted out of this. But now, see the cunning ploy, they don't mention the primary mission at all. Psy-ops is now made out to be the primary mission.

Rover said...

Navindran, yes, it seems that it is hard to believe how they could miss a target when they are low flying. But they probably still want to preserve their aircrafts (don't want to make it into a suicide attack), and hence have to pull up to a decent height before dropping the bombs, so as to prevent damage to their craft. Since they are not diving down (speculating) when they attack, their aim can't be that precise.

Rover said...

SLAF guys, be careful the next time you are called to get a couple of airborne Zlins. It could very well be a G-A missile trap, hope you will not slow down, and if you don't get a lock the first time, turn and make several high speed attempts.

Srilankan said...

Perein,
I dont know anything about firefinder radars though.Your right..it seems unreal that these crop dusters flying at tree top level did not incur any damage whatsoever..since you cannot gain a high altitude as soon as you bomb with these it..takes time with propellered aircraft.what i mean is you cannot do a 90 degree climb im sure.once you hear the noise of the aircraft anyone with a machinegun/rifel should be able to fire at it.

Parakrama said...

Moshe Dyan:

"LTTE will very easily shoot these slow flying planes down."

How come we can't shoot down those low flying LTTE planes so easily then?

hemantha said...

I guess,
1) If the air crafts appeared on the radar screen (as indicated)it must have been just for 5 or 10 minutes. I don't think our ground base radar is capable of detecting these when they are deep in the terrorist territory.

2. If they choose to attack Weli Oya front line, our air crafts won't be able to take them unless they are already in the air. "Window of opportunity" is just may be 10 minutes. An MI-24 stationed close to the front line would have a better chance. But I doubt we will ever station MI-24s close to the front line.

3. The best way of taking them down (in Weli Oya) is using ground based guns. But probability of happening that would be similar to that of LTTE shooting down one of our helicopters above their positions (I think this prob. is higher).

4. I don't think our Mig-29s are here yet. But if we can airborne them on time their radars should be able to detect where the LTTE air crafts are landing (I guess. Correct me if I am wrong). Then few ground sorties might be able to take them.

(My two cents.)

Defencewire said...

onceinawhile,
Puccara was originally at Anuradhapura before being retired.

Sun Tzu,
Agree with analysis.

Moshe,
Agree with analysis.

The COIN aircraft have quick reaction time since they are propeller driven. They also have the ability to hover for longer periods of time. A jet fighter takes time to get airborne. its not like starting a car, or even a propeller-driven aircraft and taking off.

navindran,
Agree with you.

sandun,
No. What we reported is correct. SLA feels it has a better chance of a breakthrough at Kilali and Muhamalai. Nagarkovil is open terrain. Hence Brig. Silva's appointment to the 55.

perein,
No radar detection at all. Low flying scattered formation. difficult to fire AA batteries because we don't have them everywhere. The only country that ever had a system like that was former Yugoslavia under Martial tito. Only the sound was heard in pitch darkness. We don't have a radar system that can completely cover our internal airspace. There are certain 'holes'.

chamal,
When the jets engaged, they must have either hit one unit or come dangerously close to hitting one. This made the firing less intensive. This does not confirm that a unit/s were taken out completely, although it is possible.

How can LTTE hit low and fast flying COIN aircraft at night when we can't even get a Zlin 143? The same logic applies to them. This is why we say we must resort to low tech. Low tech Vs High-tech in this case is clearly not working, partly because of our economy but mostly because of how the low-tech is being used. The danger is in using low tech every day in a predictable manner. Notice the Tigers do not use them predictably. Compared to them, we have a much larger airs[ace to defend, many more installations, many more LTTE spies mingled in with Tamil civilians around our main military garrisons and their assets etc.

Parakrama said...

DefenceWire, sorry for cut 'n' paste job, it's a long comment and I don't want to re-write it again!

Enough is enough!

Air force chief MUST go.

- He is unable to defend his own bases (AAB, KAB)
- He is unable to defend other military installations against TAF (e.g. MBRL positions, 22-3 HQ)
- He is unable to defend economic locations in the country against TAF (e.g. Kolonnawa)
- He is unable to provide CAS to our troops (e.g. Muhumale)

How many times has he got to fail before he has to go? Army and navy chiefs are good, we need an air chief to match them.



Intel
We spend millions to acquire targets and have drones etc etc and if air force chief has his way, we’ll probably spend millions more on target acquisition. TAF, however, gets targets without having all these sophisticated equipment. What’s going on here?

Accuracy
Once they acquire targets, they are able to hit them with accuracy (well, they manage to at least get close to the target!), anywhere in SL (e.g. A’pura, Colombo, Jaffna, Weli Oya etc.). It’s true that they haven’t caused much damage, but if they had slightly better equipment, these raids would have been devastating. Now imagine what they would do to us if they had the equipment we have...


CAS
They targeted 22-3 HQ and MBRL. Just image if they had hit our MBRL. Would that not have helped tigers either defend better or go on the offensive? The point is that SLAF was incompetent and let tigers get too close to us, yet again!

Low flying, low tech aircraft
When they first attacked, it was because we didn’t have radar. Then it was because we didn’t have interceptor jets. Now what?

What’s the point in spending millions of USD if we can’t protect our FDL and our troops from TAF? You guys say they bombed close to Mullaitivu and that we didn’t have enough time. The point is that they managed to stay airborne to at least to have a go at their objective. We were unable to intercept them. Did they spend 75 million USD just to protect Colombo? Did they not think of protecting troops in FDL’s?

If TAF is so hard to shoot down because they are low tech, why are we going for high tech solutions? Could we not have bought a fleet of ZLins ourselves?

What our guys are offering are just excuses. The point is that we have the equipment to destroy TAF, SLAF boss is just too incompetent to put the equipment to effective use.

Next time they will attack Colombo and get away with it and we will have another excuse lilke "sorry, pilots for MIG 29’s were sleep at the time. We challenge them to attack us when we are awake if they dare". Come on.....

SLAF is doing quite a bit, but for the amount of money we spend on them, they are not doing enough.

The bottom line is that SLAF must deliver more, be it CAS, night raids, precision strikes or intercepting, they are just not pulling their weight.

Time for air chief to go.

Rover said...

Keep reassuring yourselves that TAF is mostly for psy-ops until they get a big target. People said the same thing about the LTTE's Navy until they became a real menace.

If LTTE just wanted TAF for psy-ops, I am afraid they have failed miserably. Since the first strikes by the TAF, the SLAF has been able to upgrade its assets in leap and bounds, under the auspices of forces (India, IC) that were initially reluctant to see us having an effective AF. Now the SLAF has the capability to do night operations, precision strikes and get out unscathed. The newer better SLAF assets has given psychological and logistical nightmares to the LTTE.

TAF in other words, have only been able to escalate the situation, but they have not been able to upgrade, only SLAF has. What kind of psy-ops is this?

Ayusha said...

ok here is the deal!

SL army does not have CLOSE AIR SUPPORT

in any modern combat sphere you need close air support to avoid heavy casualties

COIN air craft are the solution period!

Sun Tzu's disciple said...

"What kind of psy-ops is this?"

For answer refer to the post directly above yours:)

* The very fact that you are apprehensive of the fact that they can grow like the Sea Tigers(and GOSL commits large sums on costly toys like Mig-29 along which also comes spares/training/maintenance/fuel costs)shows their psy-ops has been very successful:)
All the ' upgrades' you mention comes at a cost--they are not for free.

Sun Tzu's disciple said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rover said...

Para is a non-military guy, he can say what he wishes, no problem with that.

I admit getting Mig-29s were a procurement blunder. We discussed that some time ago in this very blog-spot. But I am not entirely sure. People were reluctant to talk about their night time attack capability. They may still have their uses.

Ok, say if we had the same AF that we had before the LTTE got the TAF together. Would the SLAF still be able to do the same kind of operations, with the same intensity that they are doing now? Why is the TAF doing only half hour operations (unlike the longer runs to Colombo and back) close to their landing strips?

I still say TAF mainly escalated the situation in favor of the SLAF. SLAF was just waiting for an excuse to upgrade, and TAF gave it. Thanks.

Rover said...

ST-disciple, would appreciate if you would answer in the context I asked the question, not pointing the questions/comments of some other guy.

But if you look at the damage one of these TAF planes could cause, especially in a suicide mission. The damage can be significant. Then you will not call it a psy-ops mission right? :)

LTTErs would call it a strategic and a devastating strike by the TAF. If the mission failed, it will be psy-ops.

Sun Tzu's disciple said...

Other than TS killing I cant see any solid achievement by SLAF after ' upgradation' except maybe harassment.Even TS was killed by luck(though the bunker was indeed the target).

All the real military damage to LTTE has been done by LRRP(Charles/Sivanesan/Ramesh), SLN(10 supply ships),SLA(East victory) and by the Beechcraft(Brought by Ranil W).
I tend to concur with Parakrama.

hemantha said...

Rover,
Psy-Ops are aimed at less knowledgeable and weak-minded people. In that sense the operation was successful. Read some comments made in DN and DW (These are the people who supposed to have more knowledge than the average civilians).

Rover said...

"Other than TS killing I can't see any solid achievement by SLAF after 'upgradation' except maybe harassment.Even TS was killed by luck(though the bunker was indeed the target)."

Ok, thanks for your perspectives, but I don't agree with this. Furthermore, the nighttime capabilities are just being tested, and will probably be a turning point for this war. But the Psy-ops value that LTTE may have gained far outweigh the gains that SLAF has managed to achieve (even the Psy ops role of the new SLAF too is quite pronounced). Also consider as I said, IC's and India's support for a better SLAF.

But I do agree that LRRP and army units were quite effective (also when they were combined with calling in air-strikes ect.). But it is an entirely different scenario.

Sun Tzu's disciple said...

"LTTErs would call it a strategic and a devastating strike by the TAF. If the mission failed, it will be psy-ops."

That EXACTLY is what is psy-ops!
*The logic is simple--LTTE cares a lot about MAX BANG FOR THE MINIMUM BUCK.So getting a few cheap ' tincans' meant purely for civilian use and dropping a few irons possibly by hand, and causing great sensation in SL and abroad,getting the unique label of only rebel with tri-forces, causing great fear and anxiety in enemy reducing their morale and forcing them to commit disproportionately large sums for countering it and raising the morale of its own supporters--these are what is called psy-ops.
So my argument is reverse of yours--Psy-ops is the main target and damaging SL military is just a bonus.

Rover said...

Hemantha,

"Rover,
Psy-Ops are aimed at less knowledgeable and weak-minded people. In that sense the operation was successful. Read some comments made in DN and DW (These are the people who supposed to have more knowledge than the average civilians)."

Yes, this maybe so. But my point was, as I said in the morning "If TAF managed to hit an armory or kill some of our senior officers, this "psy-ops" mission could have easily become "a devastating strategic precision airstrike".".

The primary objective of the missions were something big -like the Katunayake airbase or an armory- and the secondary objecive is always psy-ops. When the primary objective fails, only the secondary objective is highlighted. And our people think that the primary objective was psy-ops.

What I was discussing with STD was the bigger picture. The point of view that the main role of TAF is for psy-ops, and why it was a flop.

hemantha said...

"causing great fear and anxiety in enemy reducing their morale"

This is BS being sold among good stuff.

Rover said...

"So my argument is reverse of yours--Psy-ops is the main target and damaging SL military is just a bonus."

This wasn't apparent in you very first post. Anyway, if TAF's main role was psy-ops, it was a flop, if not, we are yet to see far reaching effects. Either way, it has given SLAF an excuse to upgrade which was difficult to do (due to international pressure ect.)

Nice talking to you, got to go now. cheers.

Peter said...

The TAF would have cost the LTTE a maximum of US$ 0.5mil.

To counter this, GoSL has invested in radars, anti-aircraft guns and Mig 29s.

Total cost to SLAF is more than US$ 100mil, i.e. 20 times LTTE's.

Alternative uses:

Radar on costal areas can detect Sea Tiger movement. But this could have been done for less than 10% of the price paid for the new radars.

AA guns can function as auto-machine guns. But do you really need machine guns in amny of these places?

Mig 29s can do night flights and precision strikes on ground targets. Upgraded Mig27s can do this as well. So whats the point of paying 10 times more for Mig29?

The money spent is in addition to the personal required to maintain all these. A guy standing by an AA gun in Kandy could have been loading arti in Mannar. A guy sitting infront of radar in Hambantota could have been reading info fed back by UAV over Kilinochchi.

So all in all, TAF has created several opportunity costs for the GoSL. Although GoSL has upgraded somewhat, this would/could have been done for 10% of the money, had it not been for TAF.

Rover said...

Hemantha,

"causing great fear and anxiety in enemy reducing their morale"

From where did you get this quotation?

Rover said...

Peter, yes, but if SLAF gets VP or Pottu, in a precision bunker buster attack, game almost over.

hemantha said...

Rover,
"From where did you get this quotation?"

It was STD's.

"So getting a few cheap ' tincans' meant purely for civilian use and dropping a few irons possibly by hand, and causing great sensation in SL and abroad,getting the unique label of only rebel with tri-forces, causing great fear and anxiety in enemy --"

Peter said...

"Peter, yes, but if SLAF gets VP or Pottu, in a precision bunker buster attack, game almost over."

River, this is where I think many so called Sri Lanka analysts and those south of the border are wrong.

Several people have come and gone but the struggle goes on. VP only plays a limited role in the day to day functioning of the LTTE. Pottu Amman would be a prize catch, but the intel wing is a large department with several inline to fill his shoes.

Also, as I had said earlier, you do not need a US$15mil Mig29 to carry out precision strikes. Purpose built ground attack crafts do this job for a tenth of the price. Mig29 costs more to operate and service as well.

Upul said...

Once oil reaches $200/barrel later this summer, Sri Lanka will become a bankrupt country.

Already Sri Lanka is on World Food Program's country in desperate need for food and this should tip it over the edge for good.

Parakrama said...

Rover,

"Keep reassuring yourselves that TAF is mostly for psy-ops until they get a big target." - I agree with you completely on this issue. We have been lucky so far that TAF hasn't caused a significant military damage. However, this situation is temporary. Even if they are dropping bombs without too much accuracy, pure chance dictates that one of these days they will hit something big! So, we have no other option but to take them out.

From a psy-ops point of view, imagine the moral boost we'll get if we managed to get few of their aircraft. Also, can you imagine the blow that will be dealt to their morale?

Either way, psy-ops or not, we have to take these aircraft out!

"Ok, say if we had the same AF that we had before the LTTE got the TAF together. Would the SLAF still be able to do the same kind of operations, with the same intensity that they are doing now?" - I think so mate. The only thing new that they've done is to bomb at night time. Remember, MiG 29's are not in service yet. So, the only thing that has been added SLAF are the F-7 jets. I don't think these are being used that much at the moment. Also, why buy F-7's when you are planning on buying MiG 29's?

I know I'm a non-military guy, but to layman brain, none of this makes sense. I don't think we needed MiG 29's to do night time raids. Mi-24's are capable of night time raids and we should've bought some low tech planes (e.g. COIN as mentioned by DW). This would have been more cost effective. If we started doing constant night raids, many targets a night, and if the LTTE can't do anything about it, then that would have been a huge win even from psy-ops point of view.

The point is that we didn't need MiG 29's. The other point is that, even with MiG 29's, without a change in leadership and better co-ordination, SLAF will not be able to down any TAF planes.

It's time to make some decisive changes in SLAF!

Even if SLAF manage to destroy few TAF planes tomorrow, I still stand by my point of view that SLAF chief should go. He has failed too many times.

Rover said...

Parakrama,

Air Vice Marshal Roshan Gunatilleke should not go. He is one of the best guys we've got. Basically his whole family have given their lives (his brother actually died in battle as a pilot) to the development of the SLAF. Do you know of who the next chief would be? Would he be capable of doing what Gunatilleke couldn't do?

"Ok, say if we had the same AF that we had before the LTTE got the TAF together. Would the SLAF still be able to do the same kind of operations, with the same intensity that they are doing now?"
- I think so mate. The only thing new that they've done is to bomb at night time. Remember, MiG 29's are not in service yet. So, the only thing that has been added SLAF are the F-7 jets. I don't think these are being used that much at the moment. Also, why buy F-7's when you are planning on buying MiG 29's?

Ok, I did not say what I said in the context that you answer it. So let me explain. I am not entering into a discussion of the validity of the procurements with you. It could be the right choice or the wrong choice. Time will tell us. But what I said was after the TAF bombed us, we have been able to upgrade SLAF with ease. Upgrading included new planes, new types of bombs (bunker busters), 3D radar, AA misiles, AA guns ect. ect., under the auspices of the IC and India.

Ok, why is TAF planes not coming to Colombo anymore? Why are they just doing 30 min operations close to their landing strips? This is because the SLAF was upgraded. And as far as we know TAF has not upgraded on par with SLAF. That is why I said that the inception of TAF only helped in escalating the situation in favor of upgrading the SLAF.

I didn't plan to label you as a military or non-military guy, but I had to respond, as STD pointed you out as subject of the psy-ops of the LTTE, please read those previous posts. I am afraid that you should be talking to STD, not me.

Rover said...

Peter, I said "game almost over" not "game over".

About the validity of getting the Mig 29s, you have the answer for this in my reply to Parakrama. I am not talking about how WISELY we upgraded, but about the fact that we WERE able to upgrade with ease.

Rover said...

Para, Do you know how politically influenced most institutions in SL are? Do you think SLAF or SLA could be different? I don't know. So if any chief could be politically influenced, the chief can either go home, or he can stay and do the best he could do under the circumstances. I guess we should be thinking along these lines as well when we think about procurement blunders (if there really are) and calling for resignation of top brass.

Parakrama said...

Rover,

Sorry about the confusion in my post. Only the first part was meant to be a reply to you, the rest was meant for everybody else!

I know about his family and I know the story about his brother dying while serving SLAF. I'm not trying to dishonour his family, I'm sorry if I implied that.

I do not know who will replace him or if that person will do a better or worse job than him, however, we will never know if we don't try.

In a wider context, in Sri Lanka what we don't have a accountability. This is the basic problem that runs through all sections of the society (e.g. politicians, military guys, civil servants etc).

We are war right now and we can't afford to forgive blunders. We have to be ruthless. Just because his whole family served and some of them paid with their lives doesn't automatically entitle him to the job. It is true that the whole family has served in SLAF and his brother died for the country, but how many other young soldiers are we going to sacrifice so that we show him gratitude by staying loyal to him? After all, it is not only he who lost a brother to this war. How many other families are there where more than one person died fighting for the country? We can't be sentimental in our judgement. We have to do what's best for the country.

Earlier on I listed some of the failures of SLAF. To me, it looks like SLAF is the weak link in SL forces at the moment and we have to do something about it.

Parakrama said...

Rover,

I agree with you on your point about political interference. I know this complicates a lot of things. As I said in my previous post, we need accountability at all levels of society. Without this, we will never go forward.

Okay, let's forget about MiG 29 deal now, I didn't mean to make that to be the main point. The main point is that SLAF is not delivering enough for the amount that we invest in it. They are just careless I think. For example, AAB was not secured properly at all. That was a huge blunder on our part. I don't think we've learnt our lesson after that. My point is that top brass should be held responsible for blunders like that.

Upul said...

Daily Mirror claims a few SLA soldiers have been captured in Muhamalai disaster for govt.

The captured have also contacted their relatives in the south.

Hopefully the captured SLA, including officers are enjoying the presidential suite at the Killinochi Hilton. :)

Rover said...

"Ground sources say the LTTE does not operate artillery positions. They do not construct billets or prepare an area as an artillery field to fire from. Instead, they tow and drag canons around closely followed by a truck full of several dozen rounds of artillery shells and fire from location to location as them move."

This must be bad intel, or we must be very incompetent (or not trying enough).

How would not these be apparent for a UAV or a jet equipped with forward looking infrared (FLIR)?

See this image Deer At Night

It shows deer walking about at night at 1000 ft. I am pretty much amazed that we can't pinpoint a recently fired arti-gun (which would be really hot and way bigger than a deer) being dragged around, followed by a truck (again really high flir signature from Engine and wheels and large) not showing up like elephants in a dessert.

After all, SLAF would not have to search all over Wanni as fire control radar would give a pretty good proximate coordinates for the gun.

Rover said...

Para,

"Rover,

Sorry about the confusion in my post."

No worries. I do it all the time.

I have no idea about the politics that plague the three forces. So won't comment.

Yes, SLAF should do more. But given the constraints that they are under, they have not been too bad either.

Rover said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rover said...

Here is a FLIR image of a polar bear in a den (underground).

Polar Bear in Den

It was mentioned earlier that the arti-guns lay buried. So I presume some are being dragged around and some are buried with just the barrel sticking out. So if a polar bear lying underground can be detected using flir, why can't a recently used buried arti-gun be detected?

One might say that the temperature differences between the habitat and the polar bear in the Artic is quite high and hence the polar bear shows up very well against the cold background. But the temperature difference between the ground and the recently fired arti gun would be greater than the temp. difference in the afore mentioned scenario. So a recently used arti-gun should theoretically show up (if it is not buried too deep that is) well on flir.

Moshe Dyan said...

rover,

what a way to explain your point!

good work man.

lets wait for answers.

LKDOOD said...

$100 million to fight tamil tigers from India

LINK

LKDOOD said...



$100 million for 2% interest..wow

LKDOOD said...

Sri Lanka To Build Memorial For Indian Soldiers

LINK

IntelAttack said...

"1.We are still very much alive and kicking."
If Bin Laden flies a Zlin (may be a good old MiG-1) over Washington or New York at night dropping some WWII Bombs, some would say that "Bin Laden is still very much alive and kicking". But the problem is WHO CARES?
Moral of the story: “It's not always wiser to take tiny incident to measure or compare a relatively complicated issue that has nothing to do with the incident.”

"2.Our aircrafts are still intact."
Who said no?
Let me put it in is this way, All of them are yet to be shot. But not in the air! (cuz they are too small and slow to be shot down by supersonic fighter jets), but on ground as ground forces move in faster to Vanni.
Suggested book to read: “Differences between Zlins and Migs”. “Ways to intercept a Zlin using Bug Zapper”

"3.We know where your positions are."
Of course! Because Sri Lankan government has mapped everything and published SLA positions. Read Sunday newspapers. Get a map and mark the positions.
You might not know how to find Colombo, or Walioya, because you might not have even seen SL. But anyone knows SLA controlled areas unlike Terrorists controlled areas. Because LTTE gives promising Media Freedom and they aren't doing guerilla warfare. LOL!


"4.Your new high-flying fighter jets still cannot touch us."
Exactly! 100% True! Please refer above suggested books

"5.Our supply lines are still comfortably open."
Hmm... Looks like yes. But they too are to be closed very soon like the ones we did in recent months! lol!

"6.Dont believe all the baloney your Govt tells you."
Of course! by the way, Only believe all the good things your LTTE and TamilNet tells you!

"7.(to IC)Look we have a functional airforce surviving onslaught by SLAF."
A little correction: (to IC) Look! We did the last thing we had, in order to gain the lost propaganda, as if the SLDF continues in this way, we will be finished very soon. And it was not a deliberate Attack to hit any target since we know that any mad scientist who has a flyable mosquito can fly over areas that have not protected by Air Defense Systems like Colombo.

"I am sure ltte brought these aircrafts mainly to serve in Psy-ops field."
OMG! LOL!!! After 6 points trying to prove bullshit as diamond, the last point kicked all them off and deserves the prize! The Truth Comes Out Finally!
Moral of the story: Never write conclusions that kick all the points wrote above! It's called suicide writing!

Panhinda said...

Heat signature and FLIR will detect heated arti gun barrel. What if they close the lid where the barrel sticks out after firing? Perhaps the section of the barrel is too small for it to be visible at recon altitude. The FLIR with image magnification could possibly help.

The other method that could possibly work is tracing the path of the artillery projectile using a very high frame rate IR camera. The origin, hence the location of the gun can be traced by following the path of the projectile.

Sun Tzu's disciple said...

IA,
You and your immature pissing-contest again.Duh!

tangara said...

Hemantha and Intelattack,

Please refrain from commenting to these LTTE diehards...

Look at the bigger picture...They are here to distract the bloggers whose ideas might help GOSL defeat the LTTE threat forever.


These LTTE diehards are a nuisence.

IntelAttack said...

Sun Tzu's disciple,
Man…! I feel so sad about you!

tangara,
Yes! I totally agree with you!
But sometimes, we need to crush those using sound arguments. By doing so, we know that these LTTE fans won't stop! But majority of people with some upstairs can understand things better and maybe we can have a good laugh when they post the same crap again the next time.

Anyway I'll try to refrain from replying them, but can't stop laughing at the idiotic propaganda these LTTE fans do that they think we can't understand!

san said...

parakrama,
yes we are not using resources we have in the SLAF.we have FLIR technology on MI-24/35 why we can't locate those artillery Guns ? even one? if the things going like this it's means this war drags for another decade.who pays for it? poor srilankans

Panhinda said...

Looks like the cat was out of the bag a week before Muhmalai. The LTTE knew at least week before. Then they deceived the army over radio to commit troops into unplanned forward movement pre-empting the actual assault. They had brought in additional arti over to the peninsula in preparation.

Our commanders should really learn keep future planned action classified. This is not the first time either.

Army prepares to open a new front
http://www.island.lk/2008/04/15/features1.html

"Brigadier Kamal Gunaratne of the Gajaba Regiment said troops under his command would push forward once they received the green light from the Army Chief."

The above article appeared on 15/4, a week before Muhmalai

Leak of military secrets led to Muhamalai debacle
http://tinyurl.com/3veqeo

"UNP MP, Lakshman Kiriella told a news conference yesterday that senior military officials with the instigation of the government had come up openly publicising the planned military strategies."

tangara said...

Panhinda,

I saw this article couple of weeks ago and could not believe my eyes...

..No where in the world Army Top brass would utter anything like this.

This is bad.

Moshe Dyan said...

hemantha,

i doubt this keriella fellow's statements. he may be trying to create a rift within the army. he is not alone!!

just a month back he cried that the tmvp had requested the govt. to relocate the STF. now we now the STF was taken to the north which is a wise move.

this keriella bugger is a lunatic.

before talking about the war someone should ask him whether he supports the war or oppose it FIRST. if he opposes the war there is no point in providing free advice on it.

Pundey Eelam said...

-- OPEN NOTICE TO ALL --

Anyone who will hack websites related to LTTE will be rewarded.

THIS IS A REAL NOTICE.

Moshe Dyan said...

para,

"Moshe Dyan:

"LTTE will very easily shoot these slow flying planes down."

How come we can't shoot down those low flying LTTE planes so easily then?"

DW has agreed with my analysis.

in short,

1. LTTE tin cans comes VERY irregularly
2. their attacks were highly unsuccessful
3. they have plenty of targets than SLAF have
4. they have the power of stealth as opposed to the SLAF
5. LTTE tin cans are mostly for propoganda by aerobatics; SLAF is not for this.
6. they come from the jungle and go back to the jungle. SLAF is operating from well reputed bases.

san said...

what is our current UAV capability? is that true after the AAB attack we lost 50% of our reconnaisance capacity

Defencewire said...

panhinda,
LTTE were always expecting the push. The 55 under Brig. Gunaratne did what they said he would. Its the 53 under Brig. Sooriyabandara that messed up.

ravana said...

hey guys found new thing,,,
just try to send a comment to lanka e news...hahah...very funny man gala's site...they never publish comment from the g mail accounts..shyaam ,,upul,,try it machang may be you can..

ravana said...

lanka e news just publish a report about "rani"the terrerist..already they Q the police speaker...any one know these political mafia ever Q police or any one regarding piliyandala,,waliveriya,,kabithigollawa..

Panhinda said...

DefWire,

/* LTTE were always expecting the push. */

They would always be in standby. However this time they would have known about a time frame accurate to within a few weeks when the army is looking to move forward. The article in the Island may have contributed to their suspicion. The army would have been monitoring LTTE radio for an opportunity to break out. LTTE already aware of the impending assault, set a trap silently bringing in additional carders and artillery. They setup an artillery pod in Soranpattru, just south of Pallai. Once they are set, they deceive the army by transmitting over radio saying they are in a difficult situation at the Kilaly - Muhamaalai - Nagar Kovil frontline and was hard - pressed to retain its positions. The army of course march forward right into their trap thinking they are weak on their FDL.

Tigers Demonstrate Military Prowess at Muhamaalai Front
http://transcurrents.com/tamiliana/archives/625

The failure was not just having to rely on bad quality intelligence, but there was absolutely no co-ordination with JOC, SLAF and SLN. None of them were notified of the operation. As a result, there were neither air nor naval support. Dvora's should have been there to prevent LTTE reinforcements. They could have easily opened up their cannons from off shore on LTTE FDLs at least.

Something must be done at very high level to improve team work between forces.

Rover said...

I have another vital question to ask.

I presume the feedback that we get from our current UAVs are real time (and hence digital). If so, I hope we have a pattern recognition system in place to identify suspicious objects (such as arti-guns).

If we don't have such a system, I need to explain further, the value of such a system in finding the arti-guns (and even other equipment).

Simply, you have a pattern, lets say an arti gun that had just fired a shell, photographed at night through a FLIR system at 3000 ft. So based on this a priori image, a computer scientist/mathematician can generate a pattern recognition system using neural networks or bayesian classifiers.

But I am not sure if the live feed can be analyzed as it comes in through such a system. But certainly this can be attempted, if one has access to fast computers. If not, the feed can be analyzed later.

But the important point is, hopefully we have a pattern recognition system associated with the live feed, or we are just wasting most of our efforts just scanning through the naked eye, for militarily significant objects.

Would like your feedback on this.

Panhinda said...

rover,

FLIR generates a grey scaled image. If the image is fed into some pattern recognition, then it is probably best to have colour information. You are correct in that, there must be off-the-shelf/open source algorithms that could identify breaks in patterns of the image. The areas with breaks in pattern is where you will most likely to find suspicious objects. This is why colour is important. The colour sensitivity must pick up breaks between the colour of the foliage to slight differences in the camouflaged gun barrel.

Realtime image analysis is a condition of the algorithm used and the amount of CPU/caching involved.

Rover said...

Panhinda,

Thanks, yes, I realize having color will give extra information to facilitate pattern recognition.

But I was thinking more on the lines of recognition in terms of shape (so at night realistically this would be the flir signature - shape). Since this has only a few parameters, the algorithm should run fast.

For daytime use, we can incorporate color as well in the algorithm. These will run slower, if it has both shape and color.

Panhinda said...

Rover,

Yes, grey scale using shape would yield fast results. You may also want to add the ability to differentiate glowing objects, in this case heated objects. So it would look for a bright green/white color in addition to clearly defined shapes.

Defencewire said...

We lost all our functioning UAVs at AAB including a 'honeymoon' couple brought for testing from a middle eastern country. Then, end of last year, we got some new ones from the same place.

Rover said...

Panhinda,

"Yes, grey scale using shape would yield fast results. You may also want to add the ability to differentiate glowing objects, in this case heated objects. So it would look for a bright green/white color in addition to clearly defined shapes."

Yep, this could be done easily if the glow proves to be a consistent marker. If not, the image can be run through a filter to highlight the stuff that we are interested in, prior to analysis.

Anyway, hope we such a system in place, or SLAF would look into implementing such a system.

Rover said...

"LTTE building complex adjacent to Iranmadhu air stripe bombed"

Defence.lk has done it again. This time on a title. It should be airstrip not air stripe.

LKDOOD said...

Lankan Navy arrests 6 Indian fishermen

LINK


Iranian President in Colombo

LINK

Moshe Dyan said...

"We lost all our functioning UAVs at AAB including a 'honeymoon' couple brought for testing from a middle eastern country. Then, end of last year, we got some new ones from the same place."

+ free of charge, according to some news sources of THAT COUNTRY. Also the same source said 3 not 2 (couple). may be i remember it wrong.

thank you DW for the update.

Panhinda said...

Heylo DefWire,

Fundamentally, the three forces aren't thinking as one. They don't see themselves as others. Its probably a combination of ego, wanting protect their patch, getting credit or something along these lines. People in the organisation and how they relate to each other plays a big part in how successful that orgainsation becomes. The Lankan defense organisation needs to also first really find ways of getting people to work with one another. Teamwork is the one that will glue all army, airforce, navy even police to work as one strong force.

How has lack of teamwork affected Sri Lankan defense? Air Force procurement is one example. Did they work with other stakeholders to see how they can offer help? Mig29 purchase is good as far as having a fantastic airforce, but does it assist the common goals of the Sri Lankan defense force optimally? Another example is the third consecutive defeat at Muhlamai where the army works alone without getting others help.

Get all the field commanders, the navy and air force chiefs into one room for a team bonding session. Allow them to share their needs and thoughts with one another and discuss and develop ideas. Humans ares the most valuable resource in any organisation. Giving it the due recognition and the space to work with one another holds the key to success of the organisation itself.

Moshe Dyan said...

panhinda,

value your comments mate.

BUT there are other things that also contributed.

The MiG-29 issue was discussed in VERY DETAIL here. There are things that we do not know fully.

I was against the MiG-29 deal until i found some details that tigers MIGHT (might) have a single rudimetary jet like the MiG-21. DW rejected this and many did. but longranger (SF) shared the same suspicions. he cited the quality of runways in LTTE areas. for ZLings you actually don't need these runways. roads would do and we have no info. that tigers ACTUALLY DID USE their "runways".

he also gave a link about a criminal who has allegdly sold russian manufactured weapons to various terrorists possibly to the LTTE.

also the SLAF commander has REPEATEDLY demanded MiG-29s. i assume that he knows more than i do and he may know things that he cannot reveal.

if all these are put together there is a very slim chance that tigers MIGHT possess a jet. our F-7s are less capable than the MiG-21 based on which the F-7s were produced.


If tigers have a MiG-21 and if they fly it, our airforce will be a sitting duck. only MiG-29s can take it on successfully in theory. (of course there are other more expensive planes).

your reasns are certainly true. and i also second the argument that it may be a good idea to replace the SLAF chief.

but there is a BIG reason behind SLAF not providing battlefiled support.

SLAF jets/gunships are NEVER allowed to take off without identified, selected and approved targets. this is done to maximise the benefit form operating these VERY expensive machines. this process takes a LONG TIME.

we need to change this process (as well) for the SLAF to be more proactive.

Even if the SLA and SLAF are fully co-ordinating with each other, if this process is to follow, the result will be the same. by the time SLAF takes off tigers have hidden their heavy guns in a school!!!

It's no use locking the stable door after the horses have bolted.

The 1995 august air raid was highly successful because we had prior info. of the LTTE attack and method of attack. we won't have this all the time. tigers are VERY flexible and we need to flex our air capabilities accordingly.

Parakrama said...

Rover, Panhinda,

I just read your interesting comments about FLIR pattern recognition. I automatically assumed that SLAF would have such a system in place already! If they are just analysing these video streams with naked eye, then we are not putting all these high tech gadgets to best use (as I mentioned before!).

Anyway, if SLAF hasn't got such a system in place, then they should put it in place ASAP. If they can't buy an off the shelf package, then it is fairly easy to create one. You need to store the video stream as it comes in (I presume this is done already) and then split it into frames to get still images. These images can then be processed relatively easily.

I think a neural network or a PSO (particle swarm optimisation algorithm) would be more suitable than a Bayesian classifier in this case. Either one is fairly easy to set up and would run without too much difficulty on a reasonably fast modern PC. Of course, you shouldn't really confine yourself to just one PC, put a cluster of them together and analyse the live stream in a time-multiplexed manner.

This is why I've said that SLDF need a very good R&D division. These things are not that hard to implement (if you have the knowledge that is!), you don't have to spend millions buying equipment and software packages!

What do you think?

Parakrama said...

San,

"if the things going like this it's means this war drags for another decade.who pays for it? poor srilankans"

I completely agree. Not only the economic side, but I don't think we'll be able to sustain this war for another decade for many other reasons (international pressure, SLDF recruitment issues - SLDF will not find it easy to recruit if they fail this time, strengthening of LTTE etc.). We have a nice window of opportunity here, must get all three forces to collaborate and finish this ASAP!

Parakrama said...

Moshe Dyan,

Fine, I agree with your reasoning! However, SLAF needs to do a lot more before they even come close to justifying all the investment (money & human resources).

Iqbal Athas has certainly has dropped another "bomb"!!

Shall we take him seriously or not?

If he's right, then heads should roll again!

Whoever ordered this offensive without air support (and at least informing the navy) should be court-martialled!

If he's right, then we need to change the command structure ASAP and make sure blunders like this never happen again.

But having said that, politicians & security forces in SL don't seem to learn from past mistakes, are we just banging our heads against a brick wall here?

Panhinda said...

Moshe,

Thanks for the update. I had some concern about the scale of their runway which is clearly visible from Google Earth. My original thoughts were perhaps they need such a long and wide runway for brigning in supplies. I thought they may have chartered a Antonov or some large aircraft to bring in weapons. They are certainly aware of the possibility becuase they brought in Balasingham directly into Iranmadu from Male via a sea plane once. The possibility of them having a jet fighter also creates fear. You would need a properly layed runway with tar/concrete not based on bitumen for such aircraft. Also when the Zlins were doing night excersises, we already knen they have aquired propeller driven aircraft from civilians living close by. The Jet noise and the noise it makes when it breaks the sound barrier is defeaning and unmistakable.

Just think how they can easily push our buttons to get us to react badly and EXPENSIVELY! For all you know the runway is just big to create confusion. Tamils in general around JAffna are very good at deception. They excell in the art of deception. Even the latest sortie they said they bombed a stucture next to Iranmadu. Do you think they will leave it openly visible if the target was important? We have to be smarter with these things because for all you know they may be fucking with our minds.

Moshe Dyan said...

panhinda,

it is possible that the LTTE has driven fear by having these runways, etc.

there are other suspicions other than the runways as i mentioned.

but better safe than sorry.

remember LTTE claimed their planes bombed palali in 2006?

it was purely a psy. op. but just a few months later it happened in KAB.

my suspicions on a tiger jet are only based on if.s and lack of info. but it is damn possible.

yes, tigers will never leave their planes close to identifyable structures.

but still i have no info. to JUSTIFY $75 million++. my suspicions cannot justify SLAF spending $75 million!! The SLAF MUST justify this MASSIVE spend someday.

agree with you parakrama.

Panhinda said...

parakrama,

wrt to R&D, yes defitely. What other countires do is to involve the Universities because they already have the basis for research. It requires multi disciplinary apprach involving IT, mechatronics, biology and human behavioral sciences etc. Universites already have the academics and students who have excelled in higher studies that we can draw to do such research.

Rover said...

Para and Panhinda,

Quite agree with what both of you said.

But I am afraid we won't even know if SLAF would have such a system, or if any of us (including Sri Lankan academics) could help set up such a system if they don't have one.

Setting up such a system should be undergraduate student projects, MScs or PhDs. Then our students would become experts, will gain confidence ect. and SLAF will get most of what it needs for free (or a small price for what it would have to pay for a foreign expert). Our country is quite backward in this sort of thing.

But I know for a fact that a group of academics are helping the SLA in research and development, in a fairly small scale, hope this trend becomes popular within the forces.

Rover said...

Another thing that greatly bothers me is the existence of moles within the SLAF (this was highlighted some time ago).

The moles would give away information mostly for money. So as a first step, finances should be monitored.

I think everyone joining the forces should declare their assets, and keep doing this every five years or so. This will also help prevent stealing from the SLDFs, and the civilians. If there are officers who outlive their means, they should be covertly investigated.

Rover said...

On another note, everyone from the president downwards should declare their assets if we are to maintain rule-of-law within the country. For instance in the US, presidential candidates declare their assets. And they keep declaring every five years or so. Clintons recently declared theirs. They are really really rich, and that is ok, everyone knows how they got their money and they have paid their taxes. THEY HAVE NOT STOLEN FROM THE PEOPLE. Our leaders should do the same and set an example (I don't know when this would happen), but we need to keep pushing for reform.

mottapala said...

If you think our political leaders and military top brass to declare assets you are living in a dream land. That would never happen. If you look at very honest military officers their salary is very small. Usually they can save it, at least most of it because of the perks such as free transport, free uniform etc. Buy the time they retire they don’t have their own house or any substantial savings. I remember a wife of a Army commander who recently retired confide in with a friend that all their saving was Rs100,000 in her savings account. You may remember one army commander begged the president to allow him to stay couple of months longer in his official quarters so that he could take his sons wedding. He had no place to go.

Those were the honest officers. But if somebody is buying 100 acres of coconut lands or multi million housing complexes something is wrong somewhere. But these things are never investigated. I am not blaming all. But some are definitely corrupt.

No wonder everybody look at these multi million deals with a suspicion.

Panhinda said...

reover,

We are generally a very liberal society. Majority of us believe in Buddhism which makes us forgiving, compassionate and easy going people. The problem is there are people out there who make use of our liberal attitude with law-and-order. We have very soft punishments. Since there is no proper deterrent to crime, problems keep adding up and blow out of propotion like the terrorism and rampant corruption we are now facing. How many policemen, politicians and business people who we know have taken bribes and ripped off the public. Yet the public never owns up and make a stand against corruption and waste. The treasury chief A.A. Wijepala for example was allowed to go free even though he is implicated in many financial scandles. Who in the society is standing up for these major miscarriages of justice? Would any of the Maha-Nayake thero's, Bishops, Mullah's or Poosaries ever condemn such action? People need to question these people openly and fearlessly. When one or two stands up, the rest will follow. This is what we need, we need to hold these people accountable for looking after our wealth.

Rover said...

Mottapala,

I agree with most of your comments. But we should pinpoint shortcomings then they see them and put pressure to reform, or it would never happen.

If salaries of SLDF officers are not adequate they should be raised. People say that in any arms deal, there is a commission (I don't know about the validity of this statement as I am not an arms dealer), and so it is ok to take the commission. This is total BS. If there is an "inevitable!" commission, it should be put into a central fund and used for welfare of the people who get wounded in battle ect.

Rover said...

Panhinda,

I agree with your statement.

In short we should have rule of law, which concisely put is "no one is above the law". So if our leaders reformed, they could ask their subjugates to reform. If not, the rule of law breaks down and the can't control their subjugates. This is why people like Wijepala are not being prosecuted.

When our constitution itself puts the President pretty much above the law(!!), I am not sure how the country can be run effectively, unless we had liberal autocrat. A liberal autocrat like Lee Kwan Yew, who thought damn everyone, I am going to do what is best for the country.

LKDOOD said...

Three arrested in UK for 'funding Tamil Tigers'

LINK

LKDOOD said...

Fresh influx of Sri Lankan refugees worries Indian officials

LINK

LKDOOD said...

Sri Lanka supports Iran's peaceful use of nuclear energy

LINK

LKDOOD said...

60 Sri Lankan(mostly Sinhalese) fishermen held

LINK

Sandun said...

Lankadeepa Says..

" Army USED A MISSILE FOR THE FIRST TIME and killed 6 tigers in Mannar..."

Any info about that ??

Kaavalan said...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/apr2008/sri2-a29.shtml

Brave Heros of sri lanka, joining amry because of poverty while the high ranking officers and ministers steal money from the forgien funded "development" projects...

Fools, understand this...

Moshe Dyan said...

kakavalan,

LTTE is worse. They get $200-300 million every year but its people are educated by the govt. of sri lanka!!!! Also they get their medicine, medical facilities and a large free ration from the govt. of sri lanka!!

either they don't have maanam (tamill) to eat what the "chingala govt." is giving them or the tigers are more corrupt than the corrupt SL govt.

while tamill grandmas and tamill children are getting fuckked in bunkers, LTTE leaders' children are studying in ireland, australia, toronto, luzane, oslo, etc.

Moshe Dyan said...

LTTE supporters are utter blooody idiots that they dig their own graves!!

lets lend them a shovel or two to speed it up!!!

Gringo said...

Moshe..

[lets lend them a shovel or two to speed it up!!!
]

Well said. That's my kind of thinking.

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