Wednesday, November 12, 2008

SLAF 'exposed'

SLAF's recent performance against the Zlins

When investigating the SLAF, our particular attention fell on the recent attack by the Zlin-143s in Colombo. This being the most discussed issue against the SLAF in recent times, we decided to inquire into the reasons why an 'appropriate' response was not made to engaging the Zlins.

We were assured by sources within the SLAF that MI-24 gunships were airborne and waiting in an undisclosed location over Kilinochchi and that F-7s were also dispatched to engage the Zlins. But we discovered that the 'aerial route' the SLAF say its jets took and its helicopter gunships were waiting on to intercepting the Zlins were different to the one the 2 Zlins had taken.

Based on our investigations (see some details below), we must conclude that it was a wonder that SLAF pilots downed a Zlin speaking volumes for their quality. During a few previous Zlin attacks, including the one on Vavuniya, three planes were observed on the radar screen but during the last attack on Colombo, only two had popped up on the screen. The 3rd plane, sources say, was acting as a guide.

After a careful investigation we have drawn the following conclusions:

1. SLAF fighter pilots and helicopter gunship pilots are adequately motivated to destroy the threat (if there is an actual threat) posed by the Zlins. SLAF sources indicated they keep an F-7 pilot team ready at a dedicated barrack all night to counter the threat. We will accept this explanation.

2. There seems to be a huge mis-match between the high-tech of the SLAF and the low-tech of the LTTE.

3. The F-7s in particular cannot get a radar lock without Beyond Visual Range target-locking systems. The current radar systems cannot lock on the target because the F-7s move at a faster pace and higher altitude compared to the Zlins. The slow, low-flying planes can easily get away from the existing target-locking systems of the F-7s. If the downing of the Zlins is an absolute must, we recommend SLAF seeking immediate assistance from the Indian Air Force who have upgraded their MIG-29s with BVR.

4. Although a few MI-24s have been equipped with radar, radar alone is inadequate in guiding an attack helicopter towards the Zlins in the dead of the night. The radar on board the MIs had not tracked the Zlins successfully. Only the ground-based radar had been able to observe the planes bobbing up and down. The MIs cannot pursue the Zlins with instructions from the ground-based radar alone.

5. Tigers have used an air burst bomb on the power plant, which a Navy video of the bombing clearly shows. This means that they have either improved on their home-made bomb or obtained new bombs. But one must keep in mind that even mortar bombs can be set to explode several meters above ground.

6. There is no evidence of the Zlins being equipped with radar deflation systems, although Radar being a simple radio wave, can be countered with another opposite frequency. Radar absorbing paint, however, is a more likely option. The paint is mixed with an alloy to make radar absorbing paint--a simple low-tech method to confuse the magnetic energy around the plane. But there is no evidence to suggest that the LTTE is using any of these methods.

SLAF's accuracy in bombing raids

Our investigations reveal that the accuracy of the bombing raids of the SLAF's fast jet bombers is currently between 80 to 90 percent. A sincere effort was made during the CFA to improve the accuracy of the attacks. This effort seems to have paid some dividends.

Although the exact details involved in improving the accuracy of the jet bombers cannot be revealed, some details can be discussed openly at this point. One of the key improvements the SLAF made was through the acquisition of DGPS or Differential Global Positioning Systems.

The jet bombers of number 10 squadron release their lethal cargo automatically once over the target, based on a computerized system. What one calls 'Dive Bombing' is where the pilot lowers the nose of the jet as he approaches the target but the bomb is released by the computerized system on board.

Before the CFA, SLAF realized that GPS coordinates it had gathered were 10m to sometimes 100m off target due to a problem with the traditional latitudinal and longitudinal grid map. Through an elaborate and cunning process, SLAF and MIC were able to correct this map with the differential data. They then superimposed this new map with satellite images. Hundreds of LTTE targets were thus systematically mapped resulting in the aforesaid increase in accuracy.

533 comments:

1 – 200 of 533   Newer›   Newest»
Corey said...

This great article was shown to me by a friend:

http://www.divaina.com/2008/11/09/defence02.html

Go SL Forces!!

Peter said...

"Our investigations reveal that the accuracy of the bombing raids of the SLAF's fast jet bombers is currently between 80 to 90"

6, 000 raids in two years.

@85% success rate, 5, 100 had hit targets.

On each occasion a minimum of four Tiger cadres were killed.

Total Tigers killed in air raids alone = 20, 400

Hoot! Hoot! Hoot!

Corey said...

mahen says:

" Nice try defence.lk. Dress some fugly dark SLA women as female cadres, cook up some names, yarn a tale about an English teacher, take a few pics and post on the website. If ever there was a Nobel Prize for "the most creative propoganda site", defence.lk will win it."

Hard to face the truth, eh? it hurts doesn't it?

Jackass, keep on hallucinating and keep conjuring up dreams in your mind and feel better. Otherwise, your bipolar episodes might compel you to go to Colombo wearing a suicide belt..

Psycho....go take some lithium.

Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh Haaaaaaah Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!!!

Bhathiya said...

This is something about MIG-29s.
It seems they are not comming..
My bro is frm 5SQN n their training for conversions cancelled.

;-(

Corey said...

peter,
Hallucinating again????

Hope these useless tirades make you feel better..

We need one more tin can attack in Colombo to make you happy. Otherwise the truth may be too much for you:
The cardboard peelam warriors in the wanni are fleeing helter-skelter, tail-between-legs....

By the way, where's peelam war IV these days? In Colombo???

Waaaaahhhhhhhhhhh, Haaaaaaaaaaaaah
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Defencewire said...

corey,

We must commend the services made by some sinhala language newspapers. These journalists mention the names of officers and even ordinary soldiers whose identities are never known in most wars. When you are in the frontlines it makes you feel good to (on a very remote occasion) read your name in the newspapers or have a relative showing you a newspaper cutout with your name on it when you come on leave. For a soldier, this is even bigger.

Today is Poya Day in SL. Even Major Generals were in the lines or at least near them working into the night regardless.

Bhathiya,

You are correct. The deal was called off over a month ago. We reported this on October 12th. Read it here http://defencewire.blogspot.com/2008/10/q-with-defencewire.html
But unfortunately we got a series of hate mails from some of our readers accusing us of lying. All in a days work I guess!

Bhathiya said...

I have some interesting things to say abt the recent TAF attack,which I cannot expose here,
I’ll mail it to you DW.

perein said...

DW-
Thank you for the latest. (Sil gathee naha wage).
Do you have any details about SLA vs Charles Anthony clash near Kokavil please?

Defencewire said...

Brathiya,

Go right ahead. Use the yahoo account.

perein,

Charles Anthony Vs 57 is a daily story. After Akkarayan fell CA reserve is being deployed to hold the 57 down as a delaying tactic. There are almost daily clashes in the area south of Kilinochchi Town.

koly said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bhathiya said...

koly,

LTTE knows this buddy...

So no harm

Defencewire said...

koly,

You obviously have no idea of how this works.

koly said...

Alright, Then. :)

perein said...

Koly-
Poyaa dawasee illagena kawaa...
take it easy buddy :)

TigerKiller said...

thanks DW !!.

does SLAF high command / Defence Secatry , President aware of this weaknesses ?

are they taking necessary steps to avoid those ?

Defencewire said...

tigerkiller,

It seems they have asked questions that indicate an understanding of this situation from SLAF Cdr at a security council meeting.

Corey said...

Wonderful gesture by the Muslim Community:

http://www.lankadeepa.lk/2008/11/12/front_news/04.htm

The SL Muslim community doesn't suffer from that massive inferiority complex of the tamils....

Selva said...

Gentlemen,

We do not need to fight a high tech / low tech war. We need to get our politicians together and discussion a lasting settlement, i.e. creation of an independent sovreign Tamil Eelam. There are enough educated persons like us itching to return to Tamil Eelam to help in setting up and running a civil administration. The existing LTTE cadres should be formed into Tamil Eeelam National Army.

Corey said...

"Urge Sri Lanka to come forward for an immediate ceasefire agreement with Tamil Tigers - Tamil Nadu State Assembly"

- The 'cardboard' peelam warriors are feeling a little edgy these days....

Tee Heeeeeeee......!!!!!!!!!

perein said...

DW-
Here is a question, which one of my friend's raised.
What stopping us chasing the TAF to Mullative and working out the location?
ie: SLAF airborne and head towards sky in Mullative? Top of that SLA could light up the sky near that area (Have no idea what you call for those special light-up stuff)

Defence Column said...

# Shanthan’s Trial will coincide with Hero’s Day events in London
Click here

Corey said...

vezapillai's frequency of bipolar mood-swings appears to be on the rise:

"Terror chief to avenge Wanni civilians for his own demise"

...."the LTTE has lost all their civilian supporters in Wanni and therefore it will soon lose its ability to hold the civilians as a shield."

As I mentioned about a month ago, vezapillai's peelam war V will be against his own people !!!


Yeeeeeeee Haaaaaaa Haaaaaaaa

Defence Column said...

Hi Friends...

Pls take some time off to give your feed back on this opinion poll.

Tigers airborn Tuk Tuk's
- Just a Nuisance
- Is a threat
- Poses a grave danger
- Could turn tables against SL
Click here

Selva said...

Our honorary leader does not have bipolar disorder. He is an intelligent and astute man which we all look up to. No matter what you say, over 90% of Ceylon Tamils, 95% of diaspora Tamils and over 80% of Tamil Nadu Tamils support him. There is no solution to the Tamil question without involving our great leader. Only he can guide us in the righteous path.

Peter said...

http://www.sinhala.net/LocalNews/SinhalaNet_Full_News.asp?ID=4257#NewsViewBM

Defencewire said...

koly (naatu koly?)

Sorry if sounded rude.

selva,

We should bring defenceAnalyst to answer this but here's a go at your question from me.

The first step towards a two state solution was offered in 1994 when Chandrika Kumaratunga came to power. It was to start with a 10yr interim administration. The LTTE was soon back with suicide boats and attacks on president what not. They felt very superior then. Now, when they are weak, you want to again talk peace. Let me tell you something, whatever the politicians know of the LTTE, the Sri Lanka Army knows better. You have always been insincere in your peaceful gestures. SLA always believed that there will be no peace for Sinhalese OR Tamils without defeating LTTE. And for the first time, we have a Commander who, though he has the greatest temper of any Cdr in the history of our armed forces, has grabbed the Tiger by its tail. For the first time every, SLA also has a defence secretary and president who understands it. We also have a committed navy commander and airforce commander. The LTTE, which lived and ruled by the gun will die by the gun. We can then have this conversation to govern our 65,610km2 then!

Defence Column said...

# 'If Prabhakaran surrenders, Tamil suffering will end'
Click here

Defence Column said...

Well said defencewire!!!

londonistan said...

Impressive work yet again defencewire. I hope the the SLAF-worshipers take notice of these CONSTRUCTIVE points.

The Punisher said...

Oh so hornorary Leader ha?

Yeah..puts tamils in the front as sheilds and fires against the army from behind them, what do you call this?I think its called double standards ha..

Yeah Peter Pan from Never Land is here, ever more frustrated that Captain Hook didnt give it in the ass lastnight..damn thats bad.

Peter said...

Better stick to Kopi Kade.
Can't even do lip-sync properly.

Tamil “English Teacher” speaking like a distinct modaya.

http://www.defence.lk/videos/20081112_LTTE01.wmv

Gringo said...

[Better stick to Kopi Kade.
Can't even do lip-sync properly.

Tamil “English Teacher” speaking like a distinct modaya.]

Oh... we are just trying harder to match the standard of your Photoshop jobs on Velu's appearances, cows killed in air attacks, and the bodies of our troops captured.

Yep.. its hard work...

Parakrama said...

DW, thanks for the update!

Rana,

Very interesting indeed! (previous post)

annonymous,

Well spotted! Peeter is going through the usual process of mourning that all of us go through at some point in life. The different is that he is stuck in denial stage for a very long time and I can't see any sings that he's going to move to next stage any time soon! (previous post)

annonymous said...

Peter,

Regarding the fact that you don't like to live with Sinhala and Muslim people [commented in previous article];

Well, that shows who the racist is. But Peter, you do not have to decide where the SL tamils live. They are craving to move out of the madness you fund and architect. They are fondly living in Sinhala areas.

Anyway, we never told you to come to SL. We have been living here w/o any harm. And you came to our country so why are you complaining.

BTW, We also feel uncomfortable with the dour, so good that you choose to stay away from us. thank you for thinking of our noses.


Selva,

Stop crying. You have a choice.

1. Give up weapons, and let the criminals brought to justice. Then after when SL is free have an all-island referendum for separation. But you ought to accept the result of it. We can discuss this if you do the pre-requisite.

2. War, make your relatives in SL suffer and eventually end up in the genocide which you create. There is no discussion here. We will crush it at our highest. To get thru you ought to win militarily. We don't care for your concerns and rights as long as you carry a weapon causing concerns and right violations for others. NEVER talk about peaceful separation here. Only way for your separation is war. Wage it more. DW and commenters, NEVER explain Selva why separation won't work. He knows it, if not why is he funding for a war. If Selva talks about it again deal him with MBRL. The Monkey impersonator of a peaceful saint.

All Die-Ass-Buruwah, we're in a serious war stop discussion for peace and peaceful separation. We don't want to talk with you until we eliminate you. We don't care for your terrorist rights. There is no hope for rights of yours anyway. You took weapons and we returned with same. You effectively cause your own genocide. As long as you continue with war, only right we reserve is the right for self-annihilation.

So don't cry for violation of rights or peaceful negotiations as long as you keep on funding the menace of war.

Your < 10% minority will soon surpass < 5% and soon will be negligible. And that will be justice after a millennium, finally no separatist tamils in SL since the Chola invaders entered our land.

Rover said...

n, mate,

"Why are you so tempestuous about Chapmika Ranawake?"

Reasons were given. He is a fascist (this in itself is enough justification, but will continue). We can't really make the Sri Lankan Tamil and Sri Lankan Muslim populations to think as Sri Lankans as long as theocrats and fascists are within the ruling party.

"This comment has no significant value and the USA is going to get cross over this."

It was made by a putatively responsible minister from within the walls of our parliament. And this is not the only comment he made. He made incendiary remarks against the Muslims as well.

"The facts are true anyway."

Thanks.

"Were you so mad when Robert Blake made comments about Sri Lanka interfering in our internal matters or when the TNA MPs made public statement in favour of LTTE?"

Yes I was mad. Two different episodes, needing two different reasons.

Robert Blake - I was mad for our incompetence in still not fully being able to convince even this decent guy to think otherwise. Anyway, he gave us a forewarning of things to come, and that we should adapt to the new global political perspective on carrying out wars against terrorism. In this way, I respect him for suggesting as to what we could be doing (he didn't force us to do anything did he?). After we win the war, we will need to do something to prevent another terrorist problem. This is what he said, diplomatically. Nothing wrong with that.

TNA statements - These guys are the LTTE. And I consider them another facist, racist, terrorist group. And as long as LTTE uses terrorist tactics to get at a political goal, I will support anyone to defeat them.

"Remember Chamipke Ranawake is on our side;"

This is the problem. He should be relegated to being on his own, with his fasicist ideas. New Sri Lanka does not need this, we have seen enough blood.

"your finger pointing and insults giving extra ammunition to these LTTP numbskulls."

I don't think so. LTTE could very well say, citing Chamipka as an example, that PA (run by MR) is a fasict party. This can hurt us very much more than a lone blogger's tired writings.

Why doesn't LTTE target any of these JHU guys, but try to kill people like Gota, SF, and MR? It is because, these are the people who are really hurting the LTTE. Not people in the JHU.

Facists with opposing ideas should be made to battle it out themselves, if they really want to or someone should make sure that facists exist in very small numbers. But right now, everybody is paying for problems of fascists.

Not only are JHU making Sri Lankans look bad, but they have hijacked Buddhism to justify their fascist agenda. LTTE supporting diaspora is already denigrating us (and Buddhism) citing JHU tactics.

"At this point we should be united instead of fighting with each other."

Exactly. Not only Sinhalese, but all Sri Lankans (and the whole world) should unite to fight the LTTP. People like Ranawaka make it very much harder for that to happen.

Rover said...

Thanks DW, for highlighting the incompetencies of the SLAF.

SLAF should take these constructively and do something about it. We have spent relatively, so much more on these guys.

Interesting to note that you shared the GIS work with the public.

Rana said...

Corey,

Machan, es dekata kndulu enawa eka kiyawana kota.

I feel like a bloody coward being 12000 miles away from my mother land while our young hearts fighting like lions.

"Ape kollanwa satharawaram devianma rekaganna one"

Thank you brother for this great write up!

hemantha said...

Wanni operation 12/11/2008

click here

Corey said...

tamilnut headline - (the losers are begging now):

"Announce ceasefire, call back military and commence peace talks -TN Assembly"

Way to go SL - the peelam pariahs are down to their knees now, and BEGGING!!!!

Tee Heeeeeee Heeeeeee

Rana said...

Thanks Parakrama,

I just came to office and still reading, see you little later, bro!

Rana said...

DW, Thanks,

Why didn't you add some details on battle progress too? perhaps tomorrow!

Keep it up brother.

MrBrown said...

Defencewire..
All in all..its bullshit..as usual rubish from you.

''Based on our investigations (see some details below), we must conclude that it was a wonder that SLAF pilots downed a Zlin speaking volumes for their quality.''

its not wonder..its usual rubish Dw.. How could he launched missile last time without locking it..? U meant to say he shot it by random shooting with gun?

'' The 3rd plane, sources say, was acting as a guide''

Hmmm another new crap..U have been writing all the times..there were only 2 planes.. how come now there is a 3rd one? if so..military kept quiet about 3rd one since it is military tactics or secret? absolutely there is nothing to hide abt the 3rd one.. but now u r cooking crap..
'' SLAF fighter pilots and helicopter gunship pilots are adequately motivated to destroy the threat (if there is an actual threat) posed by the Zlins. SLAF sources indicated they keep an F-7 pilot team ready at a dedicated barrack all night to counter the threat. We will accept this explanation''

what about ur story...they all go to see how their wives are being screwed after 5pm..?

U really need to improve ur writing buddy

Rana said...

History,

Marvellous translation, bro. I completely forgot what I promised to Saman but you have done a much better job.

Yesterday, was a busy day for me and today even worse!

See you later, mate.

TigerKiller said...

thanks DW for the answer

Corey said...

sun goat is not shining these days, so it is time to turn to the rain god:

psycho peter hallucinates:

"Modayas are lucky that there has been no rainfall in Vanni since the start of November.
But that luck won't last for long.
Heavens will open sooner or later.
And at beginning of Spring, when modayas are all worn out, the crouching tiger will pounce."

Keep on dreaming, pete boy (i.e., hallucinating)........ hope it makes you feel better........

Gringo said...

[Although, the Tamil Nadu Chief Minister's Relief Fund for Eelam Tamils has collected over 20 crore (200 million) rupees within a very short span of time, the statement of the resolution noted, "sending relief materials to the

{Eelam Tamils}

through international organisations alone will not alleviate their suffering travails adequately."- TN ]

Eelam Tamils????

Wow... sure I agree... LTTE coolies indeed need a another pat on the back! Otherwise how can they go to sleep... seeing hundreds of Tamil terrorists killed like flies... and the whole North and the East systematically SriLankanized?

Hooo.... hooo... losers!

Great to see our military strategies are working as planned.

Ninja said...

DW

So your final conclusion seems to be

1) SLAF is 'motivated' to down zlins
2) The 'paint' was the problem this time
3) In general, SLAF do well

Why SLAF was anable to see such 'paint' problem earlier and be prepared. Now SLAF may work on how to overcome 'paint' but next tme TAF will come with some thing else!

_____________________________________________

Beautifull Kiranchi

Three cadres captured alive

When I read teamilnut.com get confused with tamilnet.tv these days. In fact, tamilnet.com is doing better than tamilnet.tv.

The most recent joke from tamilnet.com;

/Tamil Nadu Assembly unanimously passed a resolution Wednesday demanding "an immediate halt of military operations, reverting the Sri Lankan military to old positions and a commencement of political negotiations to find a solution to the Tamil problem."/

Hak Hak Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Nirosh said...

/*
Before the CFA, SLAF realized that GPS coordinates it had gathered were 10m to sometimes 100m off target due to a problem with the traditional latitudinal and longitudinal grid map.
*/

I really don't know what SLAF is doing.. My head is cracking now..

Srilankan said...

DefenceWire,
Many thanks for the informative posts. It is nice to know that the forces have had success against the Invincible charles anthony,violet elephant and green buffalo crack commando LTTE divisions....I am still awaiting the 10,000 forces "body bags" promised by that cunt "Bala" the para balla...not to mention that laughing coolie Thaamilselvan...I hope they are having ever so much fun..bus loads of 'fun'.. where they are right now.May god protect the lives of our BRAVE troops and guide them to victory over this LTTE filth that has dominated our country since 1948.

Saman said...

Defence Column,

/Pls take some time off to give your feed back on this opinion poll.

Tigers airborn Tuk Tuk's
- Just a Nuisance
- Is a threat
- Poses a grave danger
- Could turn tables against SL/

I think I gave my feed back.

1. can you reason the exact objective of this survey.
2. What puropose it serves?
3. Is this a pilitical/propaganda stunt?

Srilankan said...

DefenceWire,
It is satisfying to comment on this blog as opposed to that LTTE shit..through lankanewspapers.com...Many thanks once again for bringing us news about this murderous fight aginst this LTTE filth that has engulfed our country for the past 60 years.

Rana said...

Ninja,

/reverting the Sri Lankan military to old positions/

yeeh, what else they want? they may be asking us to hand over Karuna and Pillian also to VP and pay few hundred millions as damages!!!

These buggers are ludicrous to the fullest extent!!

Ninja said...

Rana

Can you please find and let us know that tamiznadu monkies begged this wearing clothes? Ha Ha

Rana said...

Nirosh,

I believe you are the one who send a very informative article to SLAF blog. I read that article twice with lot of interest. Why don't you post main points you raised in that article to the blog. We would like to discuss your article, you also can contribute with additional info.

Thanks - Rana

Saman said...

History,

/*
Ekek mara siyayak be ra ganuma
Pawak lesin salakai num kima aruma
Me man malath yam dina venuwen derana
Mawath puthuth hamu wemi yam dina nivana
*/
Killing one to protect a hundreds
Is not a sin and a surprise to think as a sin
One day, if one such son dies for his country
Both son and his mother may fulfill their course/

Thanks buddy for you excellent direct translation. Some times sinhala poems better interpreted when we reverse/juggle the lines/meanings a bit (learnt in my primary schooling). Let's give it ago,

What solace one may get,
If killing one to save a hundred, is becomes a sin,
I am hopeful meeting my kith and kin in nirvana (heven?)one day
Though I may lay my life here protecting my motherland,

(I wrote this to take hurt out of my beating heart in the honor of 30 lion-hearts which stopped beating on that day in the name of the country. Here I use words “mawath puthuth” in an indirect meaning of representing soldiers' loved ones - wife, kids, his parent etc.)

Rana said...

Ninja,

Mate, no they were not wearing anything and they were standing on their heads to protect their brains. You know what I mean, ha ha ha

Moshe Dyan said...

infinity,

from a previous post.

no one said iraq = SL.

but guerilla warfare in iraq equals in MOST PART to SL.

my point is this.

SLDFs have ALREADY decided to ANNIHILATE any threat coming into them whether it be from a hardcore ltte terrorists, ltte instigated civilian civilians militia or a comination of both.

the decision has been made and there is no need discussing it.


killing 50,000 terrorists (an OVER estimation to be on the safe side) is not genocide which doesn't affect the community in any way material, let alone genocidal! LOL!

IF for some reason someone calls it genocide fantastic.

war for 25 years has killed close to 80,000. an infinite number will die if it continues.

killing even 50,000 to end the war is EXCELLENT.

selva,

your fcuked up tamil elam is not coming. accept the reality or get wiped out.

Nirosh said...

// As per Rana's request here I am posting my blog post..

Gun down TAF with their "Low Flying Aircrafts"


In early 80s an American war veteran wrote about how to protect American Sky from low flying Russian aircraft such MI-24 and Cruise Missiles. Today we are facing a similar threat from TAF.

Remember... realization that a problem exists is the only way we can ever reach a solution. Understanding the problem is the key to the formulation of a good solution. Our present air defense system lacks the ability to detect and engage extremely low- flying (I guess the actual segment of this air-space is between the ground and 100 feet above) attack planes that are currently in used by LTTE. The improvement of LTTE’s air wing has created a leak in our air defense umbrella. As per it stands today we have a threat that requires immediate attentions. We were attack in multiple occasions now. However it is unreasonable and also unrealistic to expect SLAF alone to prevent such future threats from TAF without assisting them by doing significant improvements to their current air defense setup.

We know that our radar coverage is insufficient to provide timely warning and also the existing air defense weapons (we have a range of weapons) are lacking the accuracy, depth and capabilities. As a result of this the ZLINs have evolved to be a serious threat to the ongoing war against terror, to our country, and in general to the whole region. According to the way I see it, this need a “quick fix” as well as a long term solution (with an array of progressive interim solutions).

In my field of expertise (I am not a defense expert) there's been debate about the impact of open source approaches on security. The open source exposes the source code of a software system to everyone, hence both the attackers and defenders get access to it, as per my view point the end result is better security than a close code system. If you apply the same concept to military defense, I thought it would be ideal to have the problem discussed in public to indentify the main defense framework against ZLIN (Zlin-143, which is the aircraft used by TAF). That I hope will produce a good start to a realistic end solution.


The ZLIN or TAF has open up a whole new context to this war. I can remember once Sri Lankan media (foolish, opportunist and greedy) were shouting saying that the final war will be fought on the sea with LTTE. The same was heard from LTTE spoke person too. But what has happened today, the LTTE naval wing has been almost neutralized by our SLN (Sri Lanka Navy). We worked toward what was shown but did not notice the hidden plan. I think sea-based-war was LTTE’s plan A. So then what is their plan B, which no one bothered to find? Even today, I am not sure how many of you have recognized that a war on air has already begun. In that context, LTTE is having the upper hand.

We all need to start analyzing this ponderous issue thoroughly. It has to be through a combined effects of technological and tactical knowhow (we need to combine all forces here), available weaponry (we need to combine all weaponries here), and the desire (which we all have), that we can find an acceptable solution under which we can operate (that mean, be cost effective).

As I have already mentioned, keep the picture in your mind that this flight starts at the ground and rises only enough to avoid impact with low obstacles. It also can use ground obstacles such as high rising buildings, land diversity (such as Mountains Rivers etc) to its own advantage too. Now visualize all these happening in a dark night. Having these in your mind, think that you are deployed on the ground with an anti-aircraft gun to shoot down this aircraft. So how feasible would that be, with a one-shot opportunity to gun this target down. It is not that easy right? Having that in mind let’s now try to find some solutions to this problem more closely.

According to my understanding the first and most important is to accurately identify, where the TAF platforms (airport) poised. As per the media, I am utterly confused, and sometimes it is even said that last attack was carried out by a plane airborne from South of India. In this regards, I heavily favor Long Rangers (LRRP units) to trace down the location of these ZLIN. We need to form a new special unit for this task. We need to train them with the help of our ally countries such as Russia. Today the LTTE activities are limited to killinochchi, which is about 625 square kilometers area. It is just 25 Km wide land area. That is where TAF keep their planes, and that is where we need our LRRP units to focus.

Given the money we spent over this tiny aircraft, if we are willing to spend few more dollars to bribe couple of Tamil civilians, who would dare to risk their life for money. We may start receiving some accurate information about the ground location of these planes as well.

Above two, along with increasing the aggressiveness of ground operations (if possible) are the cheapest and also the quickest solutions that we have right now. I know ground operations have its own goals but as the low flying zlin become the primary threat, they all need to be re-adjusted to support the mission against zlin. No matter what other solution we find, above three have to be the mandatory.

The next step of our analysis will be to look at present air defense systems and the problems created by the existence of the evolving low-altitude threat. Let's get started with a discussion of the capabilities of zlin-143 (TAF). The Z-143 is a light aircraft, famous for pilot training. It is easy to manure and can fly at night or (in) low visibility conditions. However the most important but ignored factor here is that it can take a pay load of 1000kg (2200lbs). But have we seen them carrying 1000 KG of explosive in any of the recent attacks? What we have seen is, it only carrying four bombs. So it seems to have a fair bit of unused space to carry more weapons. Now the million dollars question is, was it just the tip of the iceberg? Think about couple of modified zlin-143s storming to Colombo with 12.7mm four-barrel, chin-mounted, rotary gun; four 32-round packs of 57mm or four 20-round packs of 8Omm unguided rockets; and four AT-2 Swatter antitank, guided missiles, four bombs together with decoy flares (or radar jammers) for self-protection (it is like a Mi-24, yes I know it is bit of a work to get a zlin-143 modified like this). What do you think the outcome of it would be? If we have not accurately read the strength of our enemy yet, we must improve our military intelligent wing and find answers to these sprawling questions before it is too late.


If we opted to attack this plane on the air, then we at least need to satisfy the first principle of air defense, early warnings. But the existing infrastructure that we have is incapable of giving it. That is with the obvious fact that LTTE always manure their plane just 100 feet above the ground level.

So then the common problem that we have to deal with is the detection. Today, we simply can't see low-altitude targets with our current equipments. In order to employ our weapons against this enemy, we must first be able to detect their presence. A realistic detection range of an air target at 100 feet below (which is what zlin-143 is flying) is very short and that again depending on the amount of ground clutter present around the radar base. However, let’s assume that we deployed/ configured radar systems to detect air born sources at 100 feet. That will require a set of strategically positioned radar units to track the position of the plane continuously. All these need to happen in a timely manner so that a fast moving attacker like F-7G (with Max Speed ~ 2,175 km/h) can chase down the ZLIN before it reaches its goal. If we are able to detect early and continuously trace its route then we can also deploy a Mi-24 too. In order make this a real we indeed need certain upgrades to the Mig21/ F-7g radar system to effectively detect low flying aircraft while avoiding ground clutters (radar system with Low Altitude Navigation Targeting Infrared for Night). However there is a big cost associate with that.

Again, if we employ our fighter jets for an on-air-attack, that will effectively have us shut down the anti air craft defense system to avoid "confusion" and minimize friendly firing in the overhead airspace at night. In addition to this given the current condition of F-7, it may require continuous assistance from the ground radar units to guide its way to find this low flying aircraft, which mean we may have to deploy many ground radar units to increase our detect-ability. On the other hand when flying low, an F-7 can suck dust, birds and even dead trees damaging its engine. That solution will be costlier and may incur long term additional cost to secure assets.

So there has to have a solution to improve our ability to detect these airborne targets. In this regards we may have to consider a option of some kind of a Lightweight Early Warning Radar Web (let’s called it “Security-Web” hereafter) which can effectively cover the whole island. This newly proposed Security-Web has to be a man-portable, and will have that human touch to make it more accurate. It will be highly mobile, but positioned to effectively cover the whole Island. As per my view point a solution of this nature may answer to some of the needs in our quest of finding a solution to this problem. Think about a cheap GPS panic device that most soldiers can carry. The device is configured to send two signals. One is to a centralized monitoring center to mark its position, and the other signal is to trigger all other devices to an alert mode. In the recent incident the ground soldiers of the FDL noticed these planes well over before it reaches Colombo. If we have enough units deployed to effectively cover the Island. Then the ones with this device can trigger signals immediately after they detect the airplane. As the signals reached the main control center, it will reveal its original position of which the plane last detected (via Global Positioning) on the map of Sri Lanka. As the Security-Web (let’s assume that each device is deployed at 1 km apart) is activated, the soldiers (or whoever the barer will be) will have their eyes on the sky looking for the plane and to effectively track it down. These signals will draw the moving path of this air craft. As this is having that human touch which most systems do not have, the accuracy will be higher. A simple mathematical formula can process the input data and adjust them to get pin point accuracy at the end. This will give accurate location coordinate/ moving path for an F-7 (radar range 30km) or a MI 24(radar rage 10 km), to gun down this enemy in timely manner. However in such an encounter the slower speed and low altitude of the zlin-143 is an advantage to TAF as it forces the fixed-wing (F-7) to constantly concentrate on ground avoidance. So as I said before I iterate and reiterate that my best choice against fixed-wing ZLIN is a Mi-24 helicopters (once we tracked the route we can deploy about 10 helicopters). In addition to this, we can improve our ground attack capabilities too, that is by mean of giving more training to the soldiers. In the end, if we go for a solution like this, the money we spend over a framework (infrastructure) like this will very well be paid back later as there will be many other businesses (related to GPS) that we can run on top of a framework like this in future.

However, it is equally import to realize that new ideas won't become reality until for quite a sometime, so till that we need more and more quick fixes.

In addition to the ones noted above a less expensive alternative include tethered balloons with good look-down radar and/or infra-red and electronic detection devices.

We need to take immediate decisions to determine the weaponries and detection equipments that are required to regain control of our low-altitude air space. I envision three major equipment requirements as necessary to defeat the threat. They are:

1. A high quality anti-aircraft gun
2. An "air-superiority" helicopter
3. A better performing low-altitude missile


Unfortunately the money we spent here will be an utter waist if LTTE is having a Plan C to back their currently active Plan B as well. In that sense our intelligent eye has more work left to do. Finally whatever systems or combinations of systems we choose, the most critical standards to be met should be the durability and cost.

Reference: Military Library

Rana said...

Saman,

As I said b4 lierrally you poem is good. however, according to buddhism killing one is with intention to kill is bad, if intention really was to save 100 lives, it may not that bad.

Meeting also somebody in nirvana is impossible according to abhidamma becuse the moment you enter into Nirvana, you are nobody!

However, you don't need to be serious accuarate in poems.

Nirosh said...

Those who like the formating and supportive images you alway can refer my blog..

I will be off at home in about one hour.. and I am glad to join in for the discussion..

This is great, and glad to here your interest..

Keep a chair for me.. I will be back ..

hemantha said...

"In a way, the beneficiary of the Vanni military campaign won't be Sri Lanka alone. A country which is only a speck in the Indian Ocean is about to defeat an outfit described as the most ruthless terrorist organisation in the world. Even the US struggling to neutralise terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq may have some lessons to draw from little Lanka. There is a school of thought that terrorism cannot be defeated militarily. But, the Rajapaksa brothers are determined to teach the world that terrorism could be defeated militarily – like the Wright brothers who showed the world that man could fly. Why should anyone be jealous of them and try to put a spoke in their wheel?"
Editorial-The Island

click here

Rana said...

Nirosh,

Thanks, mate.
History also interested in this article, I think he will also join in shortwhile!

I will keep posting despite my urgent work load at the office.

Moshe Dyan said...

thanks defencewire for the excellent analysis.

should we hide the faces????


dear defencewire,

i have a few disagreements.

"
2. There seems to be a huge mis-match between the high-tech of the SLAF and the low-tech of the LTTE."

yes there is. but that is to OUR advantage!!!! the speed diferential is NO EXCUSE at all.

imagine a F-7 going S-to-N direction @ 2,000 km/h and an enemy F-7 coming N-to-S direction @ 2,000 km/h. the relative velocity is 4,000 km/h. even at this relative velocity, the target CAN be locked (right place @ the right time).

the relative velocity of the Zling encounter could have been AT MOST close to 2,500 km/h ONLY!


"3. The F-7s in particular cannot get a radar lock without Beyond Visual Range target-locking systems."

they can. but it seems they couldn't in the given circumstances.

"4. Only the ground-based radar had been able to observe the planes bobbing up and down. The MIs cannot pursue the Zlins with instructions from the ground-based radar alone."


take #3 & #4 together. you have the answer which i have been harping on for ages.

use the ground based radar detection to guide the interceptors close to the target (which takes MAXIMUM of 12 minutes - i have shown the calc in a previous post). when close enough, F-7 radar will pick up the TAF crap. then time to rape it.

5. Tigers have used an air burst bomb on the power plant.

yes. we mentioned this b4. kind of a "home made" cluster bomb, i called it.

Moshe Dyan said...

fantastic hemantha.

Moshe Dyan said...

continuing from the earlier post...

OK, did not the SLAF know about adding 3 + 4 together???

they knew if moshe with an irrelevant defence (not military) short study course could figure it out.

but why not implemented???

bcos the ground radars (radarS) couldn't track the zling craps CONTINUOUSLY. may be due to their eratic, crazy, altitude jumps and dips.

this is what we need to address.

Defence Column said...

# CPI flays Rajapaksa for his 'remarks on Indian fishermen'
Click here

Defence Column said...

Moshe dayan
Your link is not working

Defence Column said...

# Fleeing civilians flock Mullaitivu
Click here

Rana said...

Nirosh,

Here is my thoughts on your write up:

I agree with your first three suggestions and in fact, I myself suggested on this blog, after last TAF attack to use our front line soldiers who are not fighting but provide logistic support with some sort of small communication device (even a cellphone)which is directly connected to the SLAF operations room.

Your suggestion is to do that with a GPS locator to manually trigger coordination is marvellous. We must implement something like that 24/7 along the FDL in regular intervals.

F-7 can shoot down the Zlin, if they know the altitude (may not vital as they fly around say 150” or 5om altitude) however, latitude and longitude coordinate must be accurate with projected flight path. Then due to superior speed of F-7, it can go closer to the zlin to lock its radar.

To avoid low flying problems like dust and bird sucking into the air intake, it should come down only after detection of the Zlin. Pilots also can wear infra red night watching glasses too.

The other option you suggested with 10 helicopters is fairly difficult b’cause then they will idle 24/7 with pilots for a unknown event.

Otherwise your suggestions make sense!

That is all for the moment, mate, I will wait for your response!!

Defence Column said...

# Local Karunanidhis crawling out of the woodwork
Click here

Rana said...

Guys,

Is there nobody to shut this Managala (fishing in troubled water - "AWASTHAWADIA")fellow's trap! in SL?

Navindran said...

After 2 reasonable articles, you are back to your bullshit. Look those articles were more prospective and objective and this is your ass covering for publicly humuliating and insulting of the airforce. Your internal bickering and smooching should be left off the internet.

I came to their defence the last time when the army and navy came out to insult them because I repeat what i said that day, that in Sri Lanka's case the air force is another wing of the army.

Well spin doctoring to say that they did shoot the plane even when you say "The slow, low-flying planes can easily get away from the existing target-locking systems of the F-7s." and say they were genius in shooting it down.

First come out an admit Raman was right about who you were. Next admit the war is a lost cause. Lastly its the ARMY, I REPEAT ARMY who should use their DPU ect to take out the Zlins. Its not some one of the thousands LTTE LTC or what. Stop giving stupid lame suggestions and excuses for the ARMY'S FAILURE.

Nirosh said...

/*
F-7 can shoot down the Zlin, if they know the altitude (may not vital as they fly around say 150” or 5om altitude) however, latitude and longitude coordinate must be accurate with projected flight path. Then due to superior speed of F-7, it can go closer to the zlin to lock its radar.
*/

Yes, as per my research also a F-7 can shoot down another F-7 (:-)) and also a zlin.. however that is only if they don't have some kind of a radar jammer fixed to zlin..

/*
Pilots also can wear infra red night watching glasses too.
*/

Good point, something I researched about before writting the article. but then again to see it you need to be at least 1000 m close to the plane (However there are some other devices which has more range, I didn't remember it now.. ).. given that it is flying almost above the tree level.. that is a challenge.. but you point is valid..

/*
The other option you suggested with 10 helicopters is fairly difficult b’cause then they will idle 24/7 with pilots for a unknown event.
*/

I am not getting this. What I said was if you trace the zlin route earlly/ continously, then you can also use helicopters..

Navindran said...

Look I do not like pilots myself. They are f;'King arogant bastards, they seem to be the ones girls get drawn to and look to have an easy life. However their training is like shit because like all military training its the mental strenght which is built and phyical strenght is supplementary.

However try the Gs etc and if you or me could make that then fine. Else let them do the job. My friend told me once the an air force major once told him that why the army trains so hard when you look so puny from the sky. If i was my friend I would have punched him and asked him whether the punch felt puny.

Nirosh said...

Navindran,


I know which side you are..

/*
its the mental strenght which is built and phyical strenght is supplementary.
*/

but your point is well taken..

History said...

Okay..

I see things are happening.. thanks nirosh, rana for starting the discussion.. now the more important question I have is, can we take down ZLIN. If can HOW??

I know there are many solutions given but what is the best formular?

History said...

Navindran,

One of the best statements I read from from defense secretary.

"The rain will come and the water will flow downwards, and we will change and go with the flow".

We are keep coming.. untill we get there we will be coming..

In the same time.. as Nirosh said.. when one says "The fear to die is the mother of all fears, and if you don't fear dieing then you dare nothing" I hear him loud..

Ninja said...

Tamiznad---

The seen objective of tamiz nadu monky shows is stopping the war (which is LTTE just about to win) and CFA. However there will be added consequences.

1. After centuries now sinhala people will think how they survived 2500 years having 60mn enemy next to you. (Well, it is said tamil population was 60 times larger in the past.)

2. Any possible devolution becomes even impossible now. (This is why TMVP oppose such TN jokes.)

3. This force sinhalese to think tamils in SL really belong to India/ Tamiznadu.

4. Tamils in SL also be reminded where they came from, where they belongs to and make it harder tamils getting absorbed to SL system/ culture.

5. This justifies those who ask tamils go back to tamiznadu.

6. Finally such tamiznadu jokes which demand 'betterness for ezaam tamiz' will end up in even worse situtaion for SL tamils, (unless tamiznadu is planning to provide land, houses, jobs and indian citizenship for SL tamils instead of refugee camps.)

BTW, I like to see monkies begging for ceasefire standing on thier head in next tamilnut news. Ha Ha

______________________________________________

Rana

Mon-gala is a politician; in fact political refugee. If RW, VajiraA, LKari-alla, etc are going to say "oh yaa.. war is going well...we will support war..." it implies MR,GR doing well and people don't need alternative.

You can see majority of seniour (i.e. older) politicos in UNP are mostly silent. They know if UNP come to power at that time theier time is over and even if UNP come to power today these seniour people will get some good ministries.

But young (i.e. 30-50) politicos are in competition for good ministries and they need popularity and easy way is thier names to appear in media. When you critisize war it is the easiest and best way for publicity. (Observe VajiraA were propsed for deputy leader of UNP recently.)

Any way, you may give your least priority for UNP issues as they are not really relevent todays political context for long time, hopefully.

Moshe Dyan said...

defence column,

sorry mate. although it is highlighted in blue not meant to have a link.

history,

read my post mate. the problem is CONTINUOUS DETECTION. crack that, we have a solution.

Nirosh said...

History,

/*
I know there are many solutions given but what is the best formular?
*/

As per my finding, that is the hard part of the problem.. a array of much simpler fixes will get us there at the end..

If not, let's talk to Russia and get 10-15 cruise missiles :-) that will do the job I guess

Moshe Dyan said...

mangala & navindran are in the same sinking boat.

both support RANIL de PONNAYA.

both are politically bankrupt and NOW CRAZY!!!

Nirosh said...

Moshe Dyan,

/*
CONTINUOUS DETECTION
*/

Have a five from me..

By the way if you talk to India to resolve this ZLIN issue... it is like you try to fix one and ended up having ten problems..

Solution needs to come from a Bandaiya..

History said...

Moshe Dyan,

I read your post..

/*
read my post mate. the problem is CONTINUOUS DETECTION. crack that, we have a solution.
*/

But I rather think the ideal way is to kill the enemy while it is restin (when it is on the ground), if you let it rise, then it is risker and harder to attack.. Again if you miss the target that is dangerous too.. What do you think guys? What do you think Nirosh?

Rana said...

Nirosh mate,

?Yes, as per my research also a F-7 can shoot down another F-7 (:-)) and also a zlin.. however that is only if they don't have some kind of a radar jammer fixed to zlin../

I am not a air denece expert but as an experienced electrical engineer, I know lot abot electromagnetic propagation, reflection and absorption. Here we are taking about absorption becuase if Zlin reflect radar pulses, it will come to our radars unless it is blocked by some other obstacles. To absorb radar pulses completely is a very expensive excercise, partial absorption is possible with certain type of layers around metal body. I do not think LTTE is trying either of absorption techniques. It is purely avoiding radar pulses by flying low. However, flying low will not hide it, if we have an array of radar recievers around the FDL at regular intervals. This also give more time to Colombo to take proper actions!

/*
Pilots also can wear infra red night watching glasses too.
*/
I agree with you completely. However, military class infra red equipment can do better than 1000m, at least that is what I thought. Americans use it in desert storm to detect military vehicles and rocket launchers.

/I am not getting this. What I said was if you trace the zlin route earlly/ continously, then you can also use helicopters../

What I said is to use helicopters, we need to keep them ready 24/7 with pilots all the time. Then they are idling till TAF is air borne. Isn't that a waste of assets because helicopters like MI 24 is handy for military at FDLs.

Thanks your prompt reply earlier.

Rana said...

History,

You are absolutely correct, Nirosh and I have already agreed that is the best and most economical answer. We must use LRRP units to locate the hideout. then SLAF can bomb them.

Having said that LTTEs
's High Security Zones are prohibitted to all civilians as well as they may be hiding those Zlins in a cave type bunker, so it is a difficult task. But our LRRP units have done wonders already. Who knows they might even capable of locating and destrying both.

Similar to black tiger attack on AAB.

Rana said...

Ninja,

I know about our politicians in SL. What I said is shutting off those traitors by black mail, threatening or abducting.....

Infinity said...

On a very different subject, the Maldives are sensible pondering the day when global warming will make their islands disappear. So 350,000 people will have be relocated. Preferably they would want to go to to country with similar culture/climate and intend to save to buy land.

As have been discussed, taking care of more refugees, even with money, could have a cost. Especially since drug use seem to be frequent.

However, one factor that may be forgotten is that the country absorbing the refugees could also claim the Exclusive Economic Zone of the Maldives. This is an area several times bigger than the land area of Sri Lanka and bigger than the EEZ of Sri Lanka. Even if the rest of the islands disappear it would not be difficult to pile up enough sand to leave a few small islands with flags above the sea level to keep the claim to this very large area and the natural resources there, like fish and possibly oil.

Absorbing a few hundred thousand people may be a small price to pay for more than doubling the EEZ.

Rana said...

Nirosh, History,

We have couple of ships in Mulative sea. They have radars too. Present tiger land is only 25km wide, even our ships say 10km away from the shore line, they shuld be able to detect at least take-offs.
If we know it has air borne then other things can go into action.

Rana said...

Infinity,

Mate, you have a point there. We can sttle them in north after this war is over becuase more than half a miliion tamils migrated and about 50000 will get killed or already dead due to the war.

Settling them in Kilinochchi area will be good answer to T'naadu.

Moshe Dyan said...

history,

"But I rather think the ideal way is to kill the enemy while it is restin (when it is on the ground)"

of course!!!

this is THE preferred solution which we have been advocating all along.

other methods, although important, are when it is kind of too late.

remember SLAf's task is the protect the SL skies as it motto goes.

the violation of our air space is the crime and that is what should be STOPPED.

Nirosh said...

As Moshe is correctly pointed, it has to be a "combinations of systems".. one fix can fail but if you have ten then..

I mean if we still cannot.. then no need to fight, let's give them what they want..

Saman said...

rana,

Although not directly releven to matters discussed here, I thought worth to write.

/However, you don't need to be serious accuarate in poems./

Agree. Poetry is an art not a science. It is a medium of expressing one's feelings - therefore not even need to be literal.

/according to buddhism killing one is with intention to kill is bad/

Poem never argues that mate.It puts as a question/doubt,

Pawak lesin salakai num kima aruma,
Kima (why/what if) Aruma (excitement). Meaning that - he who does it feels guilty but can't help.

/Meeting also somebody in nirvana is impossible according to abhidamma becuse the moment you enter into Nirvana, you are nobody/

I can see you took words literally. Poem puts this as a wish not a reality. My readings of Nirvana or Nivana is a status one's soul (arthma) reaches (not a place or body). In fact teaching states "nivan dakeema". A neutral status of mind in which soul does not crave for a next birth or life - whichis regarded as the end of the "dukkha".

TropicalStorm said...

Moshe and others;

The problem with the SLAF has always been its lack of imaginative capabilities. They've always had to be spoon fed, while all their failures are conveniently blamed on not having the latest wiz toy in the market. This is a symptom of a serious leadership problem, when the leaders cannot motivate their men to find solutions to problems that recur. Either the leaders need to start doing their job, or the govt needs to find ones who can do their job better.

Moshe Dyan said...

nirosh,

"I mean if we still cannot.. then no need to fight, let's give them what they want.."

i take it that what you mean is to let the TAF do what they can but lets close in on them on ground. this is happening now. in the long run we have dealt with TAFs too.

i know you don't mean to give into the likes of peter, etc. LOL!

i read and re-read your blog - the detailed analysis on TAF. cool one mate.

keep up the good work.

TropicalStorm said...

I also think the inability of the F7s to intercept the Zlins has more to do with ineffective air traffic control, rather than anything else.

In the last stages of WWII, the Germans perfected the 1st jet fighter, the Messescmidt Me-260. This proved to be a devastating weapon for allied air craft as it would intercept them over occupied France. The air war was at a higher altitude than ours, since the allied aircraft had to fly higher to avoid ground based anti-aircraft fire. The success of the high German kill rate didn't come from gizmos and sophisticated missiles. These pilots were directed accurately to the targets by operators manning very primitive radars and simply lined up and pulled the trigger..

We need to cut thru the crap and identify the problem in its entirety. The SLAF is an inefficiently run operation and needs to be reviewed urgently and objectively.

TropicalStorm said...

Rana

Maldivian population is to be absorbed by the US and Australia. I believe that has already been finalized thru the UN.

TropicalStorm said...

When the Maldives go under, so will Diego Garcia, the last big US air base in this area.

The nicest alternative to DG is Trincomalee.

Rana said...

Saman,

You are a very resourceful person. I agree with you everything you said. My love for literature is enormous.
Thank you buddy!

CASC said...

DW,

As always, a very insightful analysis. There seems to be some systemic problem with the leadership of the SLAF, which as TropicalStorm points outs, seems to lack the imagination and dynamism to deal with these issues.

Friends,

On another note, a few weeks ago, the SLA appeared to be knocking on the doors of Killinochchi with what appeared to be every intention of making that place the primary target. It seems that the LTTE fell for this trap and put their best fighters in Killinochchi. In the meantime, the SLA's primary focus shifted to the Western coast, and at this very moment the SLA is at the doorsteps of Paranthan. It looks like the LTTE fell for this trap in a big way.

Moshe Dyan said...

TS,

100%.

innovative thinking from ACM to the radar reader.

now it is crystal clear that we need out of the box thinking to solve this TAF headache.

like the story of the empty packets.

once a japanese company found out that some of the packages didn't contain the product!

they installed complex detection systems to ckeck whether the product was in every pack (which were small) that leaves but still the problem persisted.

one worker suggested to put a fan just b4 each small pack gets packed into a larger box. where the product is not inside the small pack, it gets thrown away in the air gust and only proper packs go out.

a fan 6000 YEN??? problem solved, saved a fortune.

Ninja said...

Interseting discussion about downing zlins. I suspect our SLAF officers talk this much about downing zlins. Ha Ha I also guess DW's friend in SLAF has given some "guliya".

/"But I rather think the ideal way is to kill the enemy while it is restin (when it is on the ground)"/

Obviuosly: But the excuse is 'can't find'. This is like there is some mosquitos in your garden and its difficult to find them; but when they come to your bed-room and bite you still you can't kill them!!!

Rana said...

Guys,


I wonder when Karuna defected, he must have kept some moles amoung the tiger cadres. I also know that MOD already got lot of info from Karuna. Why we can't use Karuna's people who know the teritory better with our LRRP to hunt down ZLIN location?

Saman said...

infinity,

I am one of those who took Maldevian requst bit seriously (of course for number of reasons). Your write-up. in some respects, alighed to what I am thinking too. I said, that I wish Sri Lanka should become the stakeholder in the discussions without letting India become the sole representative of Maldives.

When East Timore issue popped up Australia played a very smart game under the banner of saving human rights and helping so called freedom struggle. In the end (when the fine print came to light) it was exposed (by Aussie media) Aussis achieved much more for them-selves than East Timories. To name a few,

1. They created a buffer by a predominant Christian nation. That would be a cats paw (or a beggars wound) where ever predominantly Muslim Indonesians get agitated. East Timorese would pay through their sufferings for generations to come.

2. Australia annexed one of the richest gas and Oil reserves in the world by secretly modifying international waters just before the sign-up. ET did not have the technology.

3. They create an ally among otherwise hostile northern neighborhood.

To me there are lots of lessons we must learn from the above as a case study.

Secondly, they are looking 100-500 years on. Civil Engineering Technologies (refer Creation of Palm Island in Dubai, Hong Kong Airport on a re-claimed island) will be so advanced at that stage and leading up to that will be a great money spinner in safeguarding coastal areas against sea level rise. It would be unwise foe us to walkway. Like a defense treaty, I recon we must advocate all SAARC countries to take a stake hold (if we can not) so that India is not the sole representative. I feel MR’s visit to grace new president’s taking over ceremony was a very smart move. He may have been the only State Leader who was present. Good thinking.

AS YOU ALSO POINTED OUT OPPORTUNITIES ARE NUMEROUS.

Rana said...

Guys,

Most of you are talking about leadership, vission, innovativeness and management problems within the SLAF.

However, I have detected a some form of bitterness within the SLAF with SLA and SLN. It is evident when you read air force news. I cannot say this with 100% confirmation. I think the reason is SLN and SLA got what they wanted from Gota but not SLAF.

Would like to see your comments on that.

Nirosh said...

Rana,

/*
Why we can't use Karuna's people who know the teritory better with our LRRP to hunt down ZLIN location
*/

In theory we should be able to.. there are two parties here.. the question is who is the smartest..

I hate to say this, this ENEMY IS A SMART ONE and if you are to beat him, WE HAVE TO OUTSMART HIM. It is a chess game, no matter how many times you change the board, if you are not smart enough, then you will ended up losing the game.

Rana said...

Saman,

Just for your info, the company, I am working for is the consultants for Paml island in Dubai. Of course I am working in the power group.

Ninja said...

Nirosh

/this ENEMY IS A SMART ONE and if you are to beat him, WE HAVE TO OUTSMART HIM. It is a chess game, no matter how many times you change the board, if you are not smart enough, then you will ended up losing the game./

Well said, many people are reluctent to accept this. In fact, we have acted stupidly, even more than the stupidity of average person. Unless and until you realize you are doing some thing wrong, you have some weakness you can't fix it.

As I see SLA and SLN overcame the problem while SLAF is still suffering.

Saman said...

rana, thanks for your compliments mate. But I am not that resourceful.

I have world of respect for those who are decades away from the motherlans but never dropped their values. Knowing, you love literature, music motivated me to discuss. I am reaching 18th year away from home. But I live it every moment.

Keep up you good work.

Rana said...

Nirosh,

I agree, They are smart becuse they are fighting to survive, but SLAF is flying to earn money. That is the difference.

TAF pilots know that they may not come back from misssions like Kelanitissa one. Our pilots want to come back safely and go home after!

CASC said...

Interview with English Teacher conscripted by LTTE and captured by the Sri Lanka Army.


Interview with English Teacher Turned LTTE Conscript Captured by the Sri Lanka Army

Nirosh said...

CASC,

I just checked the link you gave..

Q: Why are you fighting without food??

A: A looooong breath.. and a silent..

That alone told the story..

Rana said...

Saman,

Bit further on that. I am here every dealing with technical matters and last few months on defence matters too but I do not enjoy them.

I have nice sinhala book collection at home here. Evry time I go to SL I buy few books, they are so cheap there.

Padyawalee, Buthsarana, Wadan kavi potha, Kaw silumina, Ganadevi hella, all sandesha Kawwayan including Selalihini Sandeshaya, Guttila Kawwya and many books on Buddhism.

I read them again and again for pleasure.

How about-"Paha saraniya mini paminiya koth agata"-Selalihini sandeshaya

and "Natath ayek sura mathin" - Guththila Kawwya

or "Thedathi ganapathi nuwana den mata pudami me hama sithumena"- Ganadevi hella.

I already feel good just remembering those beautiful verses.

Sam Perera said...

Latest demands by Chandrasekaran the traitor can be found here. I believe that his brain is totally fried even to put this kind of bullshit proposal forward. Either we marginalize this MF or add several more divisions to SLA to defend Central, Uva, and Sabaragamu province. We need to put this basterd at his right place, i.e. garbage bin for asking for things he has no exclusive rights. We better address this problem right away. Just as we are close to finish one problem, another one is raising the ugly head. I hope that MR will put this nitwit at right place sooner.

Nirosh said...

Rana,

The ones who have read "Kaw silumina" will ask Shakespeare WHO??

YakadaPancha said...

Who?

Bhairav said...

Too bad I did not know that hand to mouth society is into literacy.


---cheers---

Moshe Dyan said...

sam,

this complete BS of discussing RACIAL demands should end.

if the political solution is about giving this race this and that race that, then the underlying ethnic problem remain unsolved!!!! racism (which is THE problem) has crept into the 'solution' also so there is no solution.

see my point?

SL should make all forms of racism illegal. until than happens a large number of ppl will not think like sri lankans.

YakadaPancha said...

Rana,

I agree, They are smart becuse they are fighting to survive, but SLAF is flying to earn money. That is the difference.

Very encouraging. But that might be the sorry truth. I think most of the SLA and SLN soldiers from average/poor families. Where as SLAF from mid/high class society.
By the way how about Ukranian pilots flying those tuk tuks?

Sam Perera said...

Moshe,

I agree. No party shall be allowed to do racial politics including it's name. Nevertheless, most of the racially oriented parties have no main stream following these days.

Moshe Dyan said...

bloodyrav,


the 'hands to mouth' society may have literature, but your mouth to arse society has only litter!!!

Ninja said...

As I know muslims live all over the world, (so does tamils.)

In USA there should be a lot of muslims; do they have a "muslim congress" which send members to congress? What about other (developed/ wewstern) countries? What about "tamil parties"?

Actually I couldn't find any such "ethnic" based parties in other countries.

Only in SL I could see political parties based on race. May be I am wrong, let me know.

Saman said...

Sam,

Tnx for the link. You are correct when you say MF. I would have said wesa balla mother fucker.

1. Chandrasekaran cancer, also medically known as UPM, has been using hidden power sharing deals (maintaining balance of power) with major political parties over many years.

2. What they are asking is to legitimate such existed or existing hidden pacts to be regionalized, boundaries demarcated and to provide administrative structures so that their campaigns against mother Lanka are funded by majority tax payers money (most likely 75% comes from Sinhalese) which would ultimately utilized to weaken the body of mother Lanka until it bleeds to death.

3. Muslim parties are no different. It is just matter of time they come to the party.

Of course Ealam cancer (as Moshe correctly put as problem of separatism), also medically known as LTTE, shadowed her all other ailments. That does not mean otehr ailments went away. At the moment as we all discuss here, we are attempting to save mother Lanka without an amputation.

One can not treat such a patient without identifying the course. To me Southern politic - ironically labeled as driven by Sinhalese chauvinism - are the fuckers who got sucked into the traps laid by these so called "minority" groups - for what -3-4 years in power.

Let me tell you mate, this country need a fresh political head. A constitution which is strong and bold enough to put a full stop to this menace. We should not, as a country ever accept, from one hand we are a multi-cultural multi ethnic country and on the other hand constitutionally allow "mono ethnic" or "mono religious" registered political parties to go to election asking votes.

If new developments require the constitution to go beyond thirteenth amendments, then we must provide a constitutional guarantee (through a referendum) that no such political parties would ever be registered. That make those illegal and SLA takes over if any goes underground. Also, constitution must make provisions to illegitimate any party – for narrow political stability – exploiting such eventualities. That way Supreme Court provides assurance where SLA can not act (for example party in power makes such deals to save their ass).

Else no matter we have a strong SLA or not – the country will always be a dogs breakfast.

I may be dreaming – but I am not the only one. If at all we can get there, then Obama era (next 8 years) may be conducive and SL would establish as a modern democracy.

In short only a constitutional guarantee can put off these fires.

Love to discuss.

Saman said...

Moshe, Sam,

ON UPA issue,

Seems we are on the same wave length.

Ninja,

US models (young democracies US, NZ, Canada, Australia) do not work in 2000+ civilizaions. This is the simple fact we can not grasp.

Saman said...

Rana,

I also has a technical background. After visiting this blog I am slowly understanding some military technological jargon and strategies from you folk.

I love music, poetry and literature (sinhala the most but I read almost every novel which won the bookers price). I read a lot in to geo politics especially indo-lanka).

What a collection you got and you remember things well too. Sinhala is a very poetic language (sumata is the correct word). Also, our writers (writings) are open to many interpretations.

Pali is to Sinhala similar to Latin to English. If you can interpret Pali then you can just touch the feelings not the literal meaning of what the writer try to bring up.

Take for example the word "sakmana". One would say avidinawa (walking). But the four letters "sa" "K" "ma" "na" means a hell of a lot than that. In traditional sinhala architecture(as our rumpus rooms here) used to have a "sakman maluwa" a long corridore where you can walk mindfully. That was a form of meditation. So if you hear that in a song or a poem - you must interpret that in mind (inner calmness, serene setting and thoughtfulnes). Just take these two lines of a song,

"Daskon saki sanda ikman gamanin noena gamanaki yanne"
"Sakman maluwe bandi pem arane mal dam gilihi yanne"

I am sure you get the idea.

These may be bit of a drag to bloggers. We can have our e-mails and keep in touch to share).

Ali said...

ok one of the problems should be obvious . it is personnel . How many of our air force pilots are trained in air to air combat . and what is the level of this training . It is not like the SLAF has ever had to think about this dimension . Take a feather form the terras cap and hire expat pilots to man the F7g's at night till our pilots are properly trained . pay these guys a big bonus per kill . I bet the problem will be over very very soon .

Saman said...

Tamil Nadu Assembly unanimously passed a resolution Wednesday demanding,

1.an immediate halt of military operations

NO WAY

2. reverting the Sri Lankan military to old positions

Hey, dont tikkle me :-)

3. commencement of political negotiations to find a solution to the Tamil problem

Already done and MR is in India to present it.

It called upon the Indian Government to undertake efforts to guarantee the,

right to life to the Eelam Tamils (VP and, say 1000 hench men?),
property of the Eelam Tamils (C4, Zlins, 130mm?)
livelihood of the Eelam Tamils (killing civilians?)
equality to the Eelam Tamils (cooly merderers = lawful citizens?)
bring back normalcy to the Tamils (actually we are)

What else Monkey - a banana too.

Mithura said...

Hey ppl,

something you should checkout :)

http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2008/10/34131_image_headline.html

enjoy :)

Ninja said...

--CFA--

Observe

1. UNP (RW/VajiraA/karialla) were critisizing war heavily past few weeks.

2. LTTP has put a lot of weight on tamiznadu for CFA.

Some elements trickily working on changing the public opinion in SL for CFA. They work mainly focusing on following.

1. High COL
2. GSL stop issuing casualty details; They issue their own (highly exagerated numbers.)
3. East issues used to say east was not liberated; war didn't work.
4. Indian election; India WILL intervene; so no use of continuation of war
5. Tamiznadu influence; Half of TNA MPs now fulltime live in tamiznadu
6. Obama => will influence to stop war
7. Economy => GSP+, slow growth rate, debt etc

You will see pelaam diaspora also chant the same thing here daily.


1. A ceasefire is some thing GSL need to avoid if we ever need to win the war or annihilate tigers.

2. OTOH CFA is best strategy for LTTE to work on, for their survival.


You can see tamilnut now hardly report "SLA xx KIA". Their first round was "civilian suffering/ displacement in wanni". Second round is tamiznadu shows (now showing) for ceasefire.

Puran Appu said...

Devil's point captured. Now, The 58 division will have more troops to fight Pooneryn.
Jaya sri.
Troops are within the striking range of the B69 Road (Pooneryn-Paranthan Road. Expect the good news very soon.

shay said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Puran Appu said...

DefenceWire,

Isn't it possible for our troops to land by sea ,somewhere near Kalmunai point or even near Nagatevanturai to support the 58th Division to capture Pooneryn?

Infinity said...

Entire Devil’s Point Now in Army Hands
http://www.army.lk/morenews.php?id=18076

The Punisher said...

As I have mentioned before, there has to be an audit into the Air force, which would look at whats missing, where they could fix these loops.This should be done by a foreign air force body, this is to make sure that money is not spent on the wrong technologies, once this committee is formed and gives a report, then investment should be made on a phase by phased approach, aswell as then only should the government invest, that way there is a guarantee that the air force can cope up against all threats.

Rana said...

Saman/Nirosh,

Not only Kaw Silumina, if you read Guththila Kawwya carefully, WETHTHAWE SIRI RAHAL MAHIMIYO can beat WILLIAM SHAKESPERE by miles!

See following:

"Ru Rese Andina Lese Ath Lele Didee Widulia Pabaa"
"Ran Rase Ekwana Lese Wena Nadanu Pa Thaba Thbaa"
"Kampase Dena Sara Lese Desa Bala balaa Nethagin Sabaa"
"Mam Kese Pawasam Ese Wara Sura Landun Dun Ranga Subaa"

See the beauty of the words and the meaning above all:

The following one is from "BUDUGUNALANKARAYA"

"Kaya nam Asaraya"
"Bhaya nam Bhayankaraya"
"Kiyanuwa Diva Reya"
"Keremi Budu Guna Alankaraya"

These priceless gems, mate.

OK, now for some defence and politics bloging.

Navindran said...

Sri Lankan Tamils issue: Rare unity in house
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Peace+talks:+Rare+unity+in+house&artid=8Z/mMQ1dCCw=&SectionID=vBlkz7JCFvA=&MainSectionID=fyV9T2jIa4A=&SectionName=EL7znOtxBM3qzgMyXZKtxw==&SEO=

As I said Jayalalitha is going to ally with the BJP and guess what, she supports the ceasefire resolution. She never opposed the LTTE because she had anything against them (well she could be the least bothered). However as she was in the opposition at that time she took the opportunity and went against them. Now that sentiments have changed in Tamilnadu, she has switched over.

Looks like BJP cannot go round breaking mosuqe now. Hence breaking Sri Lanka to save the Hindus and hence championing Hindutuva. Secondly the mess is outside their compound.

Obama will lean towards the minority and BJP. Well Pakistan will sleep with anyone for money (even when they do not need the money). Hence 2009 going to be very different.

Only thing the world economist can be jealous of is that Sri Lanka does not need a stimulus package because its keeps printing money. Anyway inflation only kills the poos not people who have the luxury to blog with computers.

Rana said...

Well Guys,

SLAF never expected LTTE to violate our air space prior to 2005, that is itself is lack of vission, bad planning and mis judgement by them. Then after realising the potential danger till today, what they have done? Lets see, if we have given that money to SLN, I am sure they would have covered the whole island water tight to deprive tigers from guns, explosives, fuel etc etc. So the army could have taken them within 06 months.

Even now, it is not too late, do not give a cent to fancy dress parade air force, just ask them to do what they can do with what they got, if want a salary at end of the month.

Divert all SLAF money, which are planned for future to SLN to buy anything they want to secure our Mulative water completely!

Enough of this SLAF crap!!!

Saman said...

Ninja,

I agree some aspects of the CFA stratergy. But I feel, LTTE is taking us somewhere else while our focus is on the CFA banner.

1. I agree LTTE and sinhala Sakkiliayas are already working over time and partly successful in building a momentum towards that.

2. At the same time LTTE managed to raise IR200mil from TN. I don't think that would come as food and clothing. They need to have a mechanism to get money spent on what they want to buy.

4. They also got a resolution passed by all parties (even bosted that mandate represents not only 70mil tamils but entire tamil diaspora as well).

3. Almost all IDPs in Killy, working on the war front, payed by the GoSL

4. Carders get killed are not leaders. late recurutes.

In summary,

Material (battle) wise they are weak.
Money wise they are weak
Moral wise lower level LTTE is weak (not the top layers)
Man power they are weak.

In my view, they are back in late 1980s. They need good 5 years to re-build/re-capture.

Even without CFA, if they can get a Federal solution for North-East combined is their goal. US, India supportive of this. So do EU, Japan and Norway. They would bring it upon us as a great statemenship from VP. They would even prefer GoSL to manage the process (if GoSL sign an international treaty)

Then What?

South will boil and communal violance will happen.

Thousands get killed, and UN will declare "failed state". That in my view is the game they play now.

We should not go there. No matter what. Let Tamil Nadu stand on their head. Let India invade us. Let West put economic sanctions on us. We must not go there.

Federalism, is the begining of the end of Sinhala Nation.

Ninja said...

Devil's point (Yak-thuduwa) falls.

IF LTTP really willing to try a counter attack I guess the time is right. They should do it near poonaryn just before or just after SLA cut off B69.

AND If SLA take poonaryn they better advance east; IF GSL give a CFA while SLA staying in poonaryn it will be desastor.

I think now every one thinks SLA is advancing "easily" and we are winning the war. Let's NEVER forget the story of "hava and ibba". LTTP works hard for a CFA while many in south getting prepared for celebration!!

shay said...

"But we discovered that the 'aerial route' the SLAF say its jets took and its helicopter gunships were waiting on to intercepting the Zlins were different to the one the 2 Zlins had taken."

This just goes to show that the ground based radar coverage is insufficient to vector in the interceptors and that the radars carried on the F-7's which only have a max range of around 30km (under best weather conditions against a jet sized object, so probably less than half that distance against a Zlin) is too small to do the job on their own without ground assistance. Hence the need for a proper interceptor such as MiG-29 which have a radar coverage of around 100km in air-to-air mode(so maybe 50km against a Zlin). But of course some smart asses thought they knew better...

"Based on our investigations (see some details below), we must conclude that it was a wonder that SLAF pilots downed a Zlin speaking volumes for their quality."

Yes, with limited resources they have done a good job at certain times.

"SLAF sources indicated they keep an F-7 pilot team ready at a dedicated barrack all night to counter the threat."

Well duh...

"There seems to be a huge mis-match between the high-tech of the SLAF and the low-tech of the LTTE."

That is the LTTE's problem not ours. The only issue for the SLAF is that despite high technology, their technology is still not high enough to do the job (all the time).

"The F-7s in particular cannot get a radar lock without Beyond Visual Range target-locking systems."

What is a BVR target locking systems?? There is no such thing. You need to have a radar that is big enough (by definition much wider coverage than 30km) to support BVR engagements/missiles, the SLAF currently has neither. To do BVR you need something like a MiG-29 plus radar guided missiles.

"The current radar systems cannot lock on the target because the F-7s move at a faster pace and higher altitude compared to the Zlins. The slow, low-flying planes can easily get away from the existing target-locking systems of the F-7s."

The speed of the F-7 or any other jet has nothing to do with it. Do you think jets are incapable of slowing down and they even take off and land at Mach 2? Neither does the altitude of the jet. It is the lower speed of the Zlin, its very small size and the low power of the KLJ-61E on the F-7 (which means it has difficutly picking the Zlin against ground clutter except at very short range) that would be a problem. Any pulse-doppler radar has problems with a slow moving target, especially when its small and at low altitude, hence the need for a more an interceptor with more powerful radar and/or IRST (which is alternative means for locking the missiles) as carried on MiG-29.


"If the downing of the Zlins is an absolute must, we recommend SLAF seeking immediate assistance from the Indian Air Force who have upgraded their MIG-29s with BVR."

The less Indian involvement the better. But at least I'm glad you have accepted the need for MiG-29's after having oppossed it. Having a credible interceptor is a must because we don't have a proper ground based air defence system is the form of a short/medium range missile complex. So if you don't down them, there is always the risk they can get lucky in an attack and/or carry out a suicide attack (such as against one of our bigger naval vessels, and yes it will sink the ship).

"Although a few MI-24s have been equipped with radar, radar alone is inadequate in guiding an attack helicopter towards the Zlins in the dead of the night. The radar on board the MIs had not tracked the Zlins successfully."

Well duh... if the radar on the F-7 is insufficient, its highly unlikely that a smaller radar (if any at all) on a Mi-24 will do the job.

The Punisher said...

Unfortunately Rana

The air force is a critical part of a countries defense and offense, this is why we need to get the review, not only to look at the potential threat by the TAF's Zlins, but maybe tomorrow they or someone who wants to threaten, they need to be able to protect the skies, we cant depend on the Army to always shoot Double A in the air or for a Navy SBS to be equipped with a propeler that takes it up, but a better air force, the security of the air space is a bit pricey, so if we want to secure our selves from threats from above lets do it the right way, without investing on the more useless things.

Rana said...

Guys,

I agree with Saman, don't think about consequences, we must stick to one plan, war will not stop until tigers disarm and release all civilians to the GOSL controleed area.

If India wants to f**k with us, it is better than F***ing with vesapillei.

Then the whole world will see suppression of tiny nation by a big bully!

India will not dare to invade us, they may drop parippu and even dosai, but if they invade us, they will be in a bigger jam than they think.

We better ask Indians to f**K-off and finish what we are doing until last tiger is dead.

Constantin Demiris said...

Very well put Shay.

Because many are totally unaware of the technicalities involved with the SLAF, they resort to their own version of things before digging into the subject. Like some 'resident experts' over here even suggesting F7 pilots wear NVG goggles. Do these idiots even know how big an airspace is? And do these idiots know that there are blind spots just like when you drive a car? And at Mach 1 or above?

The other thing is we commend the Navy so much for its innovative arrow boat squadrons. Okay, its great, but does any of you have even come across the fact that these are useless in night time combat? Because they dont have the necessary equipment to engage targets at night. Since they work in swarms, its very likely that each of them will shoot at each other. Same principle goes to the swarming techniques of smaller prop driven aircraft hunting a zling.

I cant believe that there were total morons that even thought F7 pilots went home at 5pm. Enuff said.

Ruslan said...

Shay,

Spot on mate. it's bit unfortunate that we didn't go ahead with the MIG 29SM deal.



i guess this will be bit eye opener for everyone (please note the Radar range : Target Tracking Range just 26km. imagine when its in a bad weather conditions)

http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2008/2/25069_space.html

The Punisher said...

No Truce should be given to an organization like the LTTE,unless.

1. The trapped people in Mullaithivu and all conquered territories are brought into government controlled ares.

2.Th weapons are handed to an independent like the ICRC or the UN, and an investigation of an appointed committee in the LTTE controlled areas to verify that all weapons are cleared.

3. The official surrender of Velupillai Prabhakaran & Pottu Amman to the Hague, for attrocities against humans, charges of Genocide and the breaking of the Geneva convention through the use of Chemical & Biological weapons in war fare.

4. the borders be drawn as of current military controlled areas, the handing over of all weaponry stolen from the government like the 130mm Howitzers.

5. The remaining Eelamists agree to stand blindfolded turned towards a wall and let themselves be shot through the head (;p)

thambala said...

I have come up with the ultimate win win solution for the warring parties in the blog.

The SLA can take out the Terrorists regain it's lost lands and free the Tamils from the terror clutches.

But the Supporters of separatist terrorism here can ignore that with bliss and jubilantly exclaim the birth of Ezham.. or was it Eelam? They can gloat and party and throw racial slurs at the sinhalese here and boast about the increased IQ level of the most intelligent race on Earth. The patriots here will haved to accept defeat on the blog on this.

Isn't this an acceptable solution, ha?

thambala said...

Maps maps everywhere except where I need it..

Guys please post some links to good maps please.

Thanks

Ninja said...

Shay and CD

Well, I am not defence expert, in fact I am another singala modaya (peelaam certified Ha Ha).

/but does any of you have even come across the fact that these are useless in night time combat?/

GSL told they used RBS/SBS in night time battles -most recent one in Jaffna sea.

So can you tell us how LTTP navy do the same (in the night seas) without attacking each other?

For SLAF, SLAF said they will never come again..they will down them once they take off blah blah...But we saw TAF came 9 times and went back. If they really can't down them they better tell that at least to MR, so he will at least run to the bunker.

You are right, you are expert and we are modayas. But now modaya has to conclude LTTE/TAF is more expert than our SLAF experts.

I mostly agree with Rana.

We need SLAF for VIP/troops transpotation and to evaucuate injured soldiers which is done very well as I know. Also, hinds support for advancing troops is good. However jet squadren is totaly about probability. The only remaining factor is moral of troops relates to SLAF...but I think it more relates to hinds rather than fighter jets.

We think as much as new jets we have we have more power, we are more safe and its about pride. This may be ok for rich nation like Saudi Arab but not good for us.

Rana said...

The Punisher,

mate, I agree with you whole heartedly for first four conditions. Last one I don.t like, killing mislead people.

However, I will be glad if GOSL ask Indinas to f**k-off and carry on with the war untill last tiger f**k is dead.

Ninja said...

I like to add another condition. Please give back us lives of Kadirgamar, Jeyaraj and Rajiv. Ha Ha

Katch said...

Rover,

Agree with you entirely on Patale Champika Ranawaka. The moron gives all Sinhalese a bad name while giving fuel to the tiger terrorists!

Rana said...

Ninaja,

Machan, I don't even flush after, you know waht, if there is a fly in the comode water! but, If some body give me the chance of Taking f***ing vp's head with anything, I will thankful to him to the eternity, brother!

That is how my love for the basterd.

shay said...

Ninja,

"Well, I am not defence expert, in fact I am another singala modaya (peelaam certified Ha Ha)."

Good for you, but I don't feel like addressing anyones self pitying here.

"GSL told they used RBS/SBS in night time battles -most recent one in Jaffna sea."

Did I say they didn't?? I never said they couldn't be used in the first place, and probably can be used if the sailors have NVG's etc. What CD was referring to was probably the crap that some people have been talking about using swarming tactics/low cost solutions to intercept the Zlins, which won't work.

"So can you tell us how LTTP navy do the same (in the night seas) without attacking each other?"

Again, I never said anything about RABS, Sea Tigers or whatever. But I believe that LTTE uses both small boats + Muraj types for swarming. The bigger boats have radar and I'm sure at least a few NVG's on board. I don't wish to have a discussion on a completely unrelated matter.

"If they really can't down them they better tell that at least to MR, so he will at least run to the bunker."

Well, I guess thats what they did last time...

"You are right, you are expert and we are modayas. But now modaya has to conclude LTTE/TAF is more expert than our SLAF experts."

I didn't say I was an expert and neither did I call you a modaya, so spare me the self-pity. Its not a matter of TAF being more expert, its a simple matter of SLAF not having the necessary resources.

"However jet squadren is totaly about probability."

Not really. Mi-24's serve a particular purpose and jets serve another purpose, which is why every major airforce has a range of helicopters, jets and other aircraft.

"We think as much as new jets we have we have more power, we are more safe and its about pride. This may be ok for rich nation like Saudi Arab but not good for us."

Wrong again. Air defence (and indeed all warfare) is an expensive business. If you are not willing to spend the money that is required to acquire the necessary weapons systems you will not get the desired result. You can talk about "home grown", "low tech solutions" and other crap until the cows come home, but it will not solve the problem. I.e. using Mi-24's to intercept (as DW claims in this article) is an example of just a solution (similar to using slow turbo props etc which a certain bunch of idiots have been proposing for a long time). As expected it failed and will only ever succeed is by pure luck.

Ninja said...

Shay

I did address both you and CD. But for the arrow boats and expert/modaya stuff it should be only for CD, not for you - sorry about that.

But it is true that I am not defence expert, just a normal person. (So what I say may be totaly wrong or funny.) I speak upto only my knowledge, I didn't try to explain any technical things as I don't know that part but rather try to discuss things in general.

Air defence vs Sea defence--

True, we need to invest both in sea and air defence. But we should give priority to SLN.

RIght now threat via sea is from LTTE. LTTP get arms via sea and not via air. So if we invest a lot in SLN they can protect our waters, avoid fishermen issues and cut off sea supply for LTTE, and SLN has proved they are capable.

SLAF has no externel threat so far. If India or any big country wants to attack us via air and if we think SLAF can fight against that with 5 MIG29s its val-baila. So right now SLAF problem is protecting sky from internal - LTTP threat. And they have proved consecatively 9 times (ignoring last time zlin downing) that they have failed.

Now you say invest more in SLAF. Well, I am not going to argue with you. But even if we give MIG29s isn't it possible SLAF give some excuse after next failure?

I am sorry to say this, I have no trust on SLAF. They may buy MIG29s or whatever advanced expensive stuff they want; but I hope SLA will soon get those zlins.

Fighter jets vs Hinds--

I do agree the usage of hinds and believe they are doing a great job. You didn't show mw why jet squadran is NOT about probability.

Fighter jets bombs mostly deep inside areas. They say usually "based on air survivalnce done for long time and/or real time information fighter jets attacked leaders gatherinng/ training camp/ hide out/ black tiger camp/ sea tiger base/ logistic base etc. Pilots confirmed target achieved. No informoation on any casualties."

So did they really got the target...no one knows as it is deep inside. Only success story SLAF has is Thamil Selvan and if he was few meters away may be he is still living.

SL is small country. So compared to big countries with big air force may not be very good. OTOH SLAF jets do not bomb buildings, bridges etc. Now east of A( is almost liberated. We didn't see any big structres expect government hospitals, schools etc. Whatever LTTE used was under ground bunkers or small huts. These are hardly detected even for UAVs and even found you need to hit right on the spot. Few meters away...still they are safe. So I don't see any real advantage using fighter jets.

We know LTTE used thier 130/122 guns in poonaryn, vavunia but SLAF jets couldn't distroy them. In east SLA found burried guns, barals destroyed by them and SLAF jets has done no harm to those big guns.

Further, GR said they did 6000 sorties. Now jets bomb leaders gatherings, training camps, etc so there have to be some tigers staying there. And how many we should expect to stay such places? If we assume at least 5 tigers dead in each raid 30,000 dead now.!!! That's why I estimated 10% accuracy -rest to the trees.

So I see a lot of negative things with jet squadran and almost no positive things.

(I was and I am with law tech/ law cost side against zlins. But I can't argue with you.)

The Punisher said...

Yeah...So the government has to tell India, ok..we will brokerage peace, but each and every condition has to be met, before the CF could come into power, I hope the government forces have a sample of VP's blood, to make sure the real one is handed over to the Hague.

Ninja said...

/TN should send relief as commodities, not money: Australian academic

[Thu, 13 Nov 2008, 02:44 GMT]

The aid and relief money generously given to Sri Lanka by various governments and international organizations tacitly helps filling the coffers of the Sri Lankan government and its foreign exchange capacity in waging the war against Tamils. The Tamil Nadu government should therefore consider sending the relief money in the form of much needed commodities for the rehabilitation and resettlement of the IDPs in Vanni and should make sure that they reach the Eezham Tamils in the non-government controlled areas directly says, Professor E.A. Selvanathan of the School of International Business, Griffith University, Australia./

Hak Hak Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Is this our famous economic expert Dr.Navindran??????????? Ha Ha

The Punisher said...

Ninja

One thing in this article we cannot let happen is the sending of items to create them into the terrorist controlled areas as they can and will be used by terrorists to further create bunkers, trenches and LTTE hide outs, taking this into consideration, only monetary relief should be sent and IDP's created on this side of the line.

Moshe Dyan said...

shay,

i agree with your analysis except the mig-29 part.

what we lack is "continuous detection". if we have that, our exisitng weapons can bust the tin cans.

see above my post. this is proved beyond "reasonable doubt". lol!

this is what we need,

powerful long range ground radars

this has a maximum range of 42km tracking vehicles, harvesting opportunities, low flying aircraft, even infiltrators (close).

it is portable making it fantastic. we should deploy at least 5 around LTTE controlled territory. benefits are DAILY both OFFENSIVE and DEFENSIVE. FOR SLA, SLAF and SF. can support DPU/LRRP teams too.

zlings can be tracked when moved around on ground.

shay said...

Ninja,

"I didn't try to explain any technical things as I don't know that part but rather try to discuss things in general."

Well unfortunately, air warfare is a highly technical field. Which is why SLAF/SLN are technical professions compared to the SLA. You need to have a certain level of knowledge to have even a meaningful "general" discussion. I'm not pointing fingers at you here.

"True, we need to invest both in sea and air defence. But we should give priority to SLN."

We have to give priority to both. I don't know if you live here, but although the air attacks are mostly propaganda stunts from a military point, it has a massive economic impact. For example if they manage to bomb Katunayake, most of the airlines will stop coming here and insurance costs even for ships will sky rocket (happened after the first Katunayake attack) bringing an already weak economy to its knees (just as it did in 2001, you need an economy to fight a war). Even a large scale LTTE attack up north resulting in hundreds of casualties won't have the same economic impact (and will probably get less media attention as well).

"But even if we give MIG29s isn't it possible SLAF give some excuse after next failure?"

Anything is possible but at least they will have a better chance of succeeding.

"So did they really got the target...no one knows as it is deep inside. Only success story SLAF has is Thamil Selvan and if he was few meters away may be he is still living."

Well unfortunately the LTTE doesn't help us by giving the real figures. But, you can be sure that Thamil Selvan wasn't out milking his cow when he was hit by a stray bomb. So its likely that many others have also been killed by SLAF bombs.

"Whatever LTTE used was under ground bunkers or small huts. These are hardly detected even for UAVs and even found you need to hit right on the spot. Few meters away...still they are safe. So I don't see any real advantage using fighter jets."

Well if its underground, thats even more reason why you need jets. The small unguided rockets carried on Mi-24's won't do much damage against underground structures, (FAE's and ATGM's may do some damage). You need big bombs which can only be carried by jets.

"We know LTTE used thier 130/122 guns in poonaryn, vavunia but SLAF jets couldn't distroy them. In east SLA found burried guns, barals destroyed by them and SLAF jets has done no harm to those big guns."

Why are you blaming the SLAF for not being able to destroy LTTE artillery? It is not as easy as you think. The SLA has fire finder radars, so why cant they use those to locate and destroy artillery (what they're supposed to do). If the SLAF is expected to do it, there has to be immense co-ordination between SLA/SLAF (which we know doesn't exist). When artillery is incoming the SLA fire finders will need to instantly communicate the co-ordinates to SLAF. They would need to have an aircraft already up there in the area and equipped with FLIR to locate the guns before they cool. If the guns are underground, even this scenario might not work.

"Further, GR said they did 6000 sorties."

For what period is this? The exact number of sorties (jets + Mi-24) as reported by MOD is given on the LNP Kfir thread. I don't think it averages more than 1 strike a day.

"If we assume at least 5 tigers dead in each raid 30,000 dead now.!!! That's why I estimated 10% accuracy -rest to the trees."

Refer above. Also if the target is LTTE assets/equipment, there won't necessarily be casualties.

"So I see a lot of negative things with jet squadran and almost no positive things."

Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We see what we want to see/believe.

Given the very meagre resources available to the SLAF (having a few 20-30 year old jets is nothing fancy you know), they're doing what they can. Look at how many civilians are killed by the US in Afghanistan using the most modern aircraft/ordnance available. If you want the SLAF jets to be more effective there is a lot more expensive equipment that they need (i.e. day-night IR targeting/laser designator pods, precision munitions etc). You do realise that due to lack of resources most of the bombing runs are done with dumb bombs, so you cant expect great results. You also need to have excellent HUMINT + electronic intelligence gathering+surveillance. I don't know about the SLA's HUMIMT, but the few SLAF UAV's + Beechcraft are really not adequate. Although I do agree that the SLAF doesn't make full use of the assets they already have.

"(I was and I am with law tech/ law cost side against zlins. But I can't argue with you.)"

Well, its doesn't get any more low tech/cost than trying to intercept an aircraft using a helicopter (as per this DW report) and it has failed (as expected). The only thing lower than that is to get a fakir and a magic carpet (we can use a locally made padura to cut cost) and put a few armed soldiers on it to chase down the ZLin and shoot/capture it. Some of the comments that I have seen on this subject are as ridiculous as the above example.

Mahen said...

thambala and others,
here we go, you should see the
current boundries

shay said...

Moshe,

The link you gave is for basically a fire finder radar (seems to be a more modern/capable version).

The SLA already has fire finder radars and why they don't seem to be able to make better use of these (especially for taking out LTTE artillery) is a big mystery.

Early detection like I said yesterday to Apino is only a part of the problem. Last time the failure was not in the detection, (as per all the reports the Zlins were detected well in advance), but in the interception.

You need MiG-29's because the radars on the F-7's/Mi-24's or whatever don't seem to be powerful enough to track/lock on the Zlins. Vectoring by ground based radar will only work if you have sufficient time. If the Zlins had come for a quick attack (i.e. on Vavuniya) there wouldn't have been time to vector aircraft. Even if you had some Mi-24's based near there, they would not have been able to catch up. That is why you need a fast jet with a powerful enough radar to take out the Zlin even from BVR.

perein said...

Shay-
I'm trying to understand below. Let me know your thoughts.

What's stopping SLAF to take off during the TAF attacks and get closer to Mullaittivu. Also during the attacks getting SLA to light up para lights closer to the area. Find out the landing position then lay a carpet attack?

Apino Dannachess said...

Shay, Rover and all,

Do please check the following links:

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel3/3738/10936/00510649.pdf?temp=x

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jrew/jrew0573.html

PHANTOM-X said...

Rover...

JVP and JHU did a great job in the presidential elections. We live in a multi cultural and diverse society. Champika Ranawaka may or may not be a fascist. He is in the parliament and also in the government supporting the ongoing offensive against the LTTE.

Sri Lanka is a democratic country and the best weapon to deal with people with different views is debate and destroy there ideology. we cannot just go and say "you are Fascist" get outta here...the same thing applies to TNA.

thambala said...

Mahen,
Why did you say current boundaries?

MathaMathica said...

Can somebody explain why few mobile AA guns manned by agile operators with good infr-red night vision goggles can’t get these low flying Zlins ?

MathaMathica said...

Saman & rana,

« My readings of Nirvana or Nivana is a status one's soul (arthma) reaches (not a place or body). In fact teaching states "nivan dakeema". A neutral status of mind in which soul does not crave for a next birth or life - whichis
regarded as the end of the "dukkha". »

Buddhist philosophy clearly points out that there is no soul (athma). Any thing/being is an entity which arises out of infinity of conditions. Beauty of Nirvana is that it is not subjected to any conditions, so we can not describe it. It is non manifest, non relative and non conditioned.

Singhala language is as beautiful as Buddhism because it was Buddhism which nourished it throughout.

Moshe Dyan said...

shay,


thanks for the reply.

but the AMSTAR is more than a firefinder. our type of fire finders work when arti are launched by the enemy. it requires to analyse the ari path to exctly determine the launching position (plus radar guidance). also it has a short DETECTION range.(??)

a powerful ground radar can identify zlings on ground when they are transported to the airstrip, etc.

then there is enough time to destroy the vicinity. tigers may move it but that will also be tracked.

"Vectoring by ground based radar will only work if you have sufficient time."

yes.

Moshe Dyan said...

mathematica,

AA guns can be useful around the target. they have a VERY short range and for them to be effective (to shoot down a zling) there should be sufficient numbers, VERY large numbers.

mobile AA gins do not make ANY difference. the speed and direction changing of a zling is MUCH faster than any ground vehicle.

tigers rushed their mobile AA guns to places where SLAF attacked for a considerable time. zlings just drop bombs and speed away.

Saman said...

IDPs flok to Mulaithiwu,

http://www.southasianmedia.net/index_story.cfm?id=536977&category=Frontend&Country=SRI%20LANKA

It was revealed by captured LTTE carders that most govenment servants are fighting with the LTTE while drawing their usual salaries. It is time, GoSL firmly demand AGA's to facilitate IDP's reaching cleared areas within a time frame. If not those officers must be regarded as being resigned from their jobs (sevaya ath hara giya se salkala).

Moshe Dyan said...

according to nade-sung something is happening in omanthai. SLA has shelled the area forcing ICRC to leave.

is another thrust taking shape?

so the oxygen lorries have eventually reached vanni. that is close to 12,000 operations.

shitt!! why couldn't they totally block it?

shay said...

Apino,

Those radars are similar to the new radars (I think Phazotron Topaz was mentioned) that would have been available with the MiG-29SM. We also have one Beech HISAR (Hughes Integrated Synthetic Aperture Radar), which also has most of those capabilities. Why the SLAF doesn't make better use of the Beech (although they only have one) is another one of those mysteries...

shay said...

Moshe,

"a powerful ground radar can identify zlings on ground when they are transported to the airstrip, etc."

If it can do that certainly it would would be a good thing to have. 42km is not a great range, but given the small size of the area under LTTE control, I guess a few units would do. However, I doubt anything like this will be made avialable to SL unless the Chinese/Russians make it and we can afford it...

But you would still need lots of aircraft and good artillery to attack every thing the radar picks up (not to mention likely civilian movements/casualties).

shay said...

Perein,

"What's stopping SLAF to take off during the TAF attacks and get closer to Mullaittivu."

Nothing is stopping them. Didn't they intercept a Zlin close to Mullaithivu?

"Also during the attacks getting SLA to light up para lights closer to the area."

What are para lights?

"Find out the landing position then lay a carpet attack?"

Unless you see the Zlin actually land how would you know its landing position? The point at which the Zlin the dissapears from the SLAF ground radars would only give them a rough idea (the Zlin dissapears from radar once its below a certain height). The same applies for the radars on the F-7's, except that it will be even less accurate, I doubt if the radars on fighters have a ground map superimposed on the radar to locate the exact co-ordinates of a ground location.

They have attempted to bomb the landing sites based on the above on many occassions, obviously it is not successful and we don't have a carpet bombing capability in the first place.

MathaMathica said...

Mosh,

« mobile AA gins do not make ANY difference. »

With radars giving the possible trajectory one can move the guns below the tree-top flying Zlins.

Did the gunners at Kelanithinssa have night-vision? Or, were they depending on sky lighting by tracers etc?

Impossible?

Yalini said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
perein said...

Shay;
If you climb over Mullaittivu, would n't our SLAF radars pick up those low flying TAF's ?

lankaputhra said...

Sri Lanka can defeat Tigers, top ex-rebel says

COLOMBO (Reuters) - Sri Lanka's political will and military planning will defeat the Tamil Tiger rebels, a legislator who fought with the guerrillas for more than two decades said on Thursday.

Ex-Tiger commander Vinayagamoorthi Muralitharan last month metamorphosed from ruthless guerrilla into parliamentarian and de facto spokesman for President Mahinda Rajapaksa's plan to devolve power to the Tamil minority.

Just four months ago, the man best known by his nom de guerre Col. Karuna Amman was released from a British jail on visa fraud charges and narrowly escaped prosecution for war crimes stemming from his years as the Tigers' top battlefield commander.

Now, he appears in local newspapers and magazines, bedecked in sharp suits flashing a wide grin, insisting that he be called Murali, his name during his schoolboy days.

In an interview with Reuters at a safe house in the capital Colombo surrounded by elite army commandos, Muralitharan said his former comrades and erstwhile mentor, LTTE leader Vellupillai Prabhakaran, are close to defeat.

"He has no future," Muralitharan, also known as Colonel Karuna, told Reuters in an interview. "He has a totalitarian policy. He never changed from that policy. He thinks like a duke, like a king. He never accepted any other idea."

Since 1983, Prabhakaran has led the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) in their fight for a separate state for Sri Lanka's minority Tamils, who complain of marginalisation by governments led by the Sinhalese ethnic majority since 1948 independence from Britain.

From 1983 until 2004, Muralitharan was one of Prabhakaran's closest deputies. For most of that time he led 6,000 fighters in the LTTE's eastern command -- among the most battle-hardened and effective in the feared guerrilla outfit.

ut he split with Prabhakaran in 2004 and took his fighters to the government side, establishing the Tamil Makkal Viduthalai Pulikal (TMVP) party and putting himself at the top of the Tigers' hit list.

A GOOD PLAN

LTTE policy demands death for defectors and the government is taking no chances with his safety.

Power went out during the interview, and when Muralitharan ushered a reporter out to the garden to wait for it to return, a dozen soldiers raced to guarding positions around the yard. At least four clustered around him as pulled up chairs to sit.

Muralitharan believes the key to the army's battlefield successes this time has been the power granted to the military.

"All plans were made by political leaders at the time. The army had no influence," he said. "Now our president gave a lot of power to them, at the same time Defence Secretary Gotabaya Rajapaksa had a very good plan."

Rajapaksa, the president's brother, is a career military officer and had faced the LTTE in combat, with the present army commander, Lt. Gen. Sarath Fonseka, fighting on his flank.

"That plan is being implemented very well by Sarath Fonseka," he said. "That's why they are getting better at the battlefront now. They have captured a lot of areas. At any minute they will capture Kilinochchi."

That is the LTTE's defacto capital and a strategic and symbolic target for Rajapaksa's government, which threw out a 2002 ceasefire in January and declared it would destroy the rebels once and for all.

Muralitharan, most analysts say, has been one of the chief reasons for the military's progress, since his fighters helped the army swiftly seize huge rebel-held areas in the east in 2007. Since then, the army has recaptured much of the rebel-held north.

His reward for that was a parliamentary seat, after his TMVP won eastern provincial elections in May. Rights groups, however, have criticised his appointment.

Rajapaksa has pledged a similar devolution plan for the north, once the LTTE is defeated.

Muralitharan insists he does not advise the military: "Particularly because they don't need my advice."

But his deep strategic knowledge is amply evident.

From memory, he quickly sketched a map of the war zone and its roads on a reporter's notepad, and explained how the army would sweep the Tigers out of Kilinochchi and corner them at the eastern port of Mullaitivu. He declined to predict a timeframe.

"Nobody can set any deadline for the war," he said.

Apino Dannachess said...

Shay,

Reply noted. I too am wondering why SLAF is not using its asets to their full potential. Lot of things rmains to be explained.


Cheers Mate

Defence Column said...

# Suicide Jacket with C-4 Explosives Found from Abandoned Shopping Complex
Click here

thiru said...

latest news from the battle front indiacates 170 SLA killed and many more injured during the last week of fighting in multiple fronts in the vanni...this is still in the defensive phase for the ltte, their offensive units have been specifically trained over the past five years and are ready at any moment, although i am a strong ltte supporter i am not looking forward to this battle as some of you may expect...it is going to be a bloody battle for both sides and tremendous casualties on both sides....sources indicate that the time for this offensive is near and SLA is in for a rude awakening.

Peter said...

Obama in Mahavamsa land

http://www.nitharsanam.com/public/2008/obama.jpg

Malin said...

Thiru If thats the case good.. we can see who really have the balls.. If SLA cant defend against this attack then all you say is correct, and LTTE can reclaim thier lost land and lost elam but if this attack never comes then you are just another shit case whos dreams are vanishing rapidly.

There was a time you all said if SLA dared to come to your shitty home land but now nearly we have come to end of phaze precious peelam has shrunk by 2/3 :)

Defence Column said...

# LTTE has to be dealt with militarily: Rajapaksa
Click here

Defence Column said...

Tiru

Why wait.. come on.. give us what your bunch of blood thirsty tigers have.. We are ready for you.. very soon we will quench your thirst for blood from your own blood!

Rover said...

"Sri Lanka is a democratic country and the best weapon to deal with people with different views is debate and destroy there ideology."

Of course. I don't want someone to kill them. And democracy is not the only panacea to all problems (remember that Hitler became the chancellor of Germany through a democratic system - but I won't go to too much detail on this aspect).

"we cannot just go and say "you are Fascist" get outta here...the same thing applies to TNA."

It was MR who absorbed JHU to the present government. If they were left on their own, they would have remained as a minority niche group. Now they are part of the majority.

TNA still is a separate political entity. Hence we can point at them and say "you support LTTE terrorism so you should better change your deposition". Can we do this the JHU without hurting the PA?

When Chamipka makes irresponsible statements, and antagonize everyone (minorities, super powers ect.)except the fascists, MR gov. will also have to take the blame - and here lies the dilemma.

My point is, fascists should be left alone as minorities that will eventually degenerate into oblivion. Now it seems that we are disproportionately strengthening one fascist group against another. This is a scary trend.

Not only that, now Chamipika can claim that it was his support and ideology that led to the demise of the LTTE (and your comments already seem to support this notion); when it was really the people like Gota and SF who were the backbone of the impetus of the drive against terrorism.

The progress we have achieved will get tainted when people like Ranawaka are within our ranks; and as I said, we will not be able to draw the support of minorities (not the fascist minority parties), to rebuild Sri Lanka.

Anyway, I will say that if Ranawaka continues his current rhetoric, and if MR gov. continues to support a fascist JHU, it will be a major cause that will eventually contribute to the demise of the MR gov. (and I don't want to see this happen, as MR is a good leader who has the capability to defeat the LTTE).

But there is the possibility that Ranawaka may learn, and the JHU changes its policies; in which case, it is all for the best.

M Raja of Surguja said...

Only 3129 Tigers and 238 child solders left.

The Punisher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
The Punisher said...

Vezapillaiy: Hey Pottu, Heard the news.

Pottu: Yes all are good stuff,all of it being caught!!

Vezapillaiy: What are we gona do, how are we gona survive the SorroW???

Pottu: Guess its Back to Kassa, no more taking from the tin, back to the Pol Katta..

(Ha...Ha(http://www.army.lk/morenews.php?id=18094) To all the eelamists)

Defence Column said...

# Sri Lanka can defeat Tigers, top ex-rebel says
Click here

Defence Column said...

# Ceasefire only after LTTE lays down its arms - President Mahinda told Indian Prime Minister
Click here

Ruwani said...

To all you Eeelamist Coolies,

Here is something for you dumb numb nuts to digest.

Sri Lanka has made more progressed than even the developed nation when it comes to gender equality.
Read this report and wish for a moment why SL will one day be one of the greatest nations on planet earth.

If it's hard to digest, drink your cynaide capsule and rot in hell low life eelamist coolie.


http://tinyurl.com/6pghel

The Global Gender Gap Report 2008
===================================

The Global Gender Gap Report 2008Norway (1) leads the world in closing the gender gap between men and women, according to the overall ranking in the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Report 2008. Three other Nordic countries – Finland (2), Sweden (3) and Iceland (4) – also top the Report’s Gender Gap Index. Previously higher ranking countries such as Germany (11), United Kingdom (13) and Spain (17) slipped down the Index but stayed in the top 20, while Netherlands (9), Latvia (10), Sri Lanka (12) and France (15) made significant gains. Featuring a total of 130 countries, this year’s Report provides an insight into the gaps between women and men in over 92% of the world’s population.

Ron said...

well said DW. keep it up.

Ron said...

why tamils trying to create a homeland in SL only. why not try in Canada or Aus? the 'tamil historians' can come up with some 5000 year old 'story' to claim their rights...

peter said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sujeewa Kokawala said...

Regarding Tincans, Guys, my feeling is that it is pretty hard to target and eliminate them. Many facts are considered and of them most critical one is avoiding friendly fire both from SLAF to SLAF or SLAF to civilian.

At the same time SLAF is yet to understand the technical depth of the requirement. I heard the following over radio news. "Having approached by Czeck Republic SLAF was offered services of an equivalent of Zlin which they had confidence in grounding the Zlins. SLAF did not buy saying that is old technology."

Nevertheless on top of the difficulty and technical incompatibility, SLAF is heavily suffering from attitude and commitment issues, w/o fixing them it will be almost ineffective. SLA and SLN was not the most effective until recent times, but they changed to lead many world ranks now. Perhaps time to rehab SLAF.

Whatever is said and done it is our SLAF and do not disgrace it. Note that they are doing a job with tough conditions and expectations. It is unfair for the k/b warriors to bang at them.

Regarding destruction of tin cans, I still think that the ultimatum has to happen on ground. Radar + AA is one. I suggested that shoulder mounted gunners distributed all over to be ready at short notice to shoot it down. It maybe another novice k.b warrior plan, but my uneducated mind sees no issues in it.

I am very negative on the chances of LRRP finding those. LRRP won't walk thru the pussycat den like in their living room. They only penetrate few kms of lesser attended areas. And these babes must be in high sec areas. I dont wanna hear of the death of many LRRP heroes. So whether on ground or in air Tincans are yours SLAF.

Regarding reckie, I think of ~50 fleet of UAV on continuous watch [if needed have image processing at head office]. It makes that sunshine is as allergic as kahambiliya to them. This will happen only if we produce UAV. However I am skeptical about that [due to THAT unexposed bad story].

Rana, if ppl like you can help with your vast Tronics knowledge in similar things that would be wonderful.

Moshe, following are my biggest concerns [repeating].

1. An attack on a relatively lesser strong place, ex: between 56th and 57th.

[- lack of harvest
- [if] we concentrate capturing towns, the pussycats loose everything to defend and become idle, nothing to loose.
- not enough defence in mid-eastern line
- Inability to penetrate Oddusudan from down.]


2. Tincan decapitation of a bigwig:

[I have written here that we can be decoyed to divert attention elsewhere and a tincan enters Colombo, and bombards the target [in a public place] leaving < 10min for us to react]


Something is bound to happen as VP's BD is coming, SLDF is poised to get Paranthan and diaspora has gone into utter depression over no results. If we plan properly we can make it end quickly, and begin the complete end of the pussycats.


Rana [out of defence topics],

Weththewe himi and Sri Rahula himi [of Thotagamuwa] are two ppl. Prior is the student of latter. Prior wrote Guththilaya [to show his loyalty to the teacher] as latter wrote Salalihiniya etc. I like prior for writing folk-like style whereas latter's is richer. Shakesphere is a great too. Just as I love these lads I dont wanna denounce him. But I personally dont like his stuff and the entire English literature. Maybe I'm a sinhala thinking person. :) Quite interesting topic.

Defence Column said...

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Sujeewa Kokawala said...

I wrote:

1. An attack on a relatively lesser strong place, ex: between 56th and 57th.

Sorry a typo. Between 56th and 59th.

Defence Column said...

# Racial hatred towards the majority Sinhala Community, is organised by the Tamil diaspora.
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peter said...

Hi hi, ho ho
My Mummmy with VP

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