The Special Boat Squadron and the Rapid Action Boat Squadron Arrow Boats engaged what appeared to be an infiltration attempt by the LTTE off Nayaru Lagoon early this morning. The area is a hotbed of Ratha Regiment infiltration units under LTTE's new overall leader for Weli Oya- Jeyam.
Exact casualties to the LTTE was unclear, although sailors confirm seeing two boats burning and another damaged boat staggering along with the remaining cluster of boats. SLAF helicopter gunships were called in to assist the sailors. The eastern coastal area from Pulmoddai to Nagarkovil is under SBS and RABS protection. As many as 40 RABS boats and smaller SBS boats are deployed in this area full-time.
Military Intelligence has been particularly aware of infiltration and extraction attempts to and from the east using Tamil fishing villages along the Nayaru Lagoon.
Tuesday, November 18, 2008
LTTE boats hammered at Nayaru
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335 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 335 of 335Dear Moshe Dayan,
Your analyses are very good. Scientific. I cross checked with wikipedia articles. There are small differences, but the conclusion is valid.
I always thought we can bomb the whole area and finish LTTP at least in the Muramala area.
Please keep posting and write to higher authorities. They know their subject but an additional head is not in vain. Is there any way I can contact you? Don't worry, I won't distribute it. Like you, I'm also a patriot. This is the time for all patriots to stick their guns together. Its now or never.
The difference between trenches and Earth Bunds in other areas is that the whole EP is like Barren land, for the LTTE if the troops run in towards them its like firing practice, they can spot them from miles away, the Air Force has to fly round the Earth bund and attack it from behind then the troops need to slowly undetected hit the bund with the tanks, further depleting the tigers resolve, but I would want to see the reaction of that FDL if the TF1 approached Parathan, they wouldn't want to have boards on there asses saying kick me, so the obvious would be a retreat.
Moshe,
Can your AMSTAR work accurately with obstacles like our soldiers, trees and buildings etc inbetween the target and radar?
Guys,
I am off to home, see you all in couple of hours time!
Signing off - rana
Heavy fighting has irrupted in Muhamalai, NagarKovil and Kilali yesterday and reliable sources confirmed that the 53rd and 55th Divisions were able to capture the 1st FDL of the LTTE.
Troops have started attacking the 2nd Line as well. It’s amazing that we get only limited information from the Northern Battle Front compared to the Wanni Front.
In the mean time, the 57th Division completely destroyed the Strong Defense of the LTTE, South of Kilinochchi town and has gained control up to this point. Lakbima confirms this.
rana,
trees and buildings cause no problem (unless they are being moved!!!!).
but own soldiers... yes.
this means it cannot be used to track infiltrators when own troops are around. that is ok. when SLA is on the offensive, there cannot be infiltrators!!! if there are, infantrymen can see them and kill them.
while in a battle there is no point having detection systems to track individuals.
when there is no battle, single infiltrators (thats how they come to the NF) can be very easily identified.
Wow!
Rajini and Kamal!!
New Rambos???
LOL! Just go on and live in the Kollywood fantasy folks!
Anonymous, Can't agree more bro. I have been screaming for Oddusudan instead of EPS.
And sadly you're too late and too distant to be heard [so am I].
Let's wish safe pass thru EPS, at least minimum casualty ["safe" becomes obsolete there, isnt it?]
Yesterday I saw parades of Ambulances. I cant still hold my heartbeat. This parade is unique that it happens everytime Muhamali is attempted.
And raised me the Q, why dont they have a helicopter landing pad in national hospital? Dying in enemy lines is a sacrifice, but I am unable to bear the possibility of some WIA dying in a colombo road.
If we have anyone with links to general hospital pls take my idea, w/o taking it for a joke.
When you say Muhamalai I always get the asthmatic feeling. And time becomes so tentative. DW, we need some news to calm us down. Pls do not keep eyes closed at Muhamalai.
[if any pussycat pawed monkey takes fun out of my tentative feelings, here is a FCUK YOU in advance]
Parakrama said...
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My personal view is that 30 KIA (and may be more MIA) at national front is too high.
Any number KIA/MIA is not bearable, and if we happened to know that it was for no gain and no harvest it hurts more [like last Muhamalai attempts]. Also ~50+ KIA [which they call 100+] gives much needed morale so even if we harvest 200 in return, there will be 400 inspired to join them because of the propaganda.
My idea is we should give “keeping our causalities low” as one important strategy.
As a non-military person, I have the following questions. It’ll be great if you can provide some answers.
Nor am I. Will try my best to make some sense
- Why can’t we use our UAV’s to create a very detailed map (including bunker positions, earth bunds, heavy guns etc. of tigers) of the terrain in front of our FDL at the NF? If we do have such maps, what is stopping us from picking these targets off one by one with our heavy weapons before launching an offensive?
Well, this is a must, but will it be realistically effective. Firstly our UAV height is not enough to photograph a lone arti gunner, probably hiding under a sand dune or bunker. If UAV comes down, then the stretch is too much for a constant watch. Secondly their resources are easily movable so hard to assume it is static. Thirdly in whatever grounds a total neutralizing is an essence before marching, this is pretty hard.
At other places we get ready info by means of LRRP, But here you walk on something like your dinner table, w/o chinaware on it,
- How can tigers withstand our heavy weapons attacks (e.g. MBRL fire)?
By making it sparse. Note that you have some width of ~10km there. Not easy to MBRL at all. Also pussycats are sacrificing civilians and never feel anything about civilian death toll.
- How can tigers hide from SLAF attacks in such open terrain?
What? You mean individuals? How hard is it to attack individuals in a 10km x 20km by air? They do not move in flanks [they had it when they did 2yrs ago]. We are the ones moving.
- Do we use UAV’s to record every little detail of the battles taking place at NF? If so, then surely we can use this footage to plan future operations.
Correct. But photos of 300 arti guns firing at random nodes will not be so much info, will it? It can help long future plans, but it won’t reduce KIA MIA of today.
- If the terrain is flat and devoid of thick vegetation and the battles took place during day time, how can our soldiers go MIA?
I am with the impression that these are the KIA who cannot be found, either in no man’s land or in their terrain.
And finally, in your opinion, what is the single most important thing that is keeping us from breaking through NF?
Terrain advantage. Lack of innovation [like coming around from Pooneryn and attacking from below]. The fact that Paranthan is under them and that makes them easy access in and out.
I know it used to be heavy artillery positioned at K-point, are these guns still posing a headache albeit from a different position?
Sure they do.
pOLWATHTHA,
Even SF is a SOKIAN and lotso of SOKIANS are doing their job in top of SLDF.
What is your year (A/L)
A good message for all communalist minorities...
If Obama can why cant we do it in Sri Lanka? Cry Sri Lankan minorities. Look inwardly, the answer is just there.
Dr Sudath Gunasekara
Wijeyapala,
Thank you very much for raising these important questions. My replies follow.
Ananda-USA:"The stability depends on how you structure it, and the cost can be offset by utilizing that force in peace time as an
economic resource, and endowing the defense establishment with military R&D and training capabilities to generate income to support its own cost."
Wijeypala: How will we be able to generate income from a large army???
Ananda-USA: I said "costs can be offset" using the defense forces to provide services needed for national development during peacetime; but the costs will not be completely eliminated. In a later paragraph I listed some of these services.
For example, the Army Corps of Engineers can build the new high-speed expressways, including bridges, that SL sorely needs for economic development. They can also undertake the development of reservoirs and dams for power generation, flood control and water conservation. They can build the airports, shipping ports, and in collaboration with the navy, offshore windpower and ocean wavepower generation plants.
Today, many construction activities are being awarded in SL to for-profit foreign firms on a build, operate and transfer basis; our forces can provide much of the labor and management services and acquire dual-use equipment purchased for these projects.
The Navy can use its facilities and ships to train our people for jobs as seamen and officers in a Merchant Marine...to make Sri Lanka into major presence in shipping...as the small nation of Greece is today. The Navy can lead the way for us to exploit our strategic location in the Indian Ocean to transform Sri Lanka into the preferred location for repairing, refitting and building ships...work that countries like South Korea are giving up and is going to Vietnam and China today. Trincomalee is ideal for large scale ship building, there is a large Graving Dock there.
The Airforce can help train civilian pilots, foreign and Sri Lankan, both for short-hauls and long-haul international flights. All of three branches of the armed forces can develop training schools for the electricians, mechanics, welders, and IT personnel such as networking technicians, computer programmers, computer technicians etc. A military university-level technical college can be set up for higher level technical traning in each area in addition to the purely-military training offered by officer training schools.
During the last 35 years, for better or worse, Sri Lanka has gained much experience in fighting an insurgency of the worst kind. Terrorism is now a commonplace cottage industry in the world; we can offer training to the armed forces of other friendly nations in need of training.
A military R&D research establishment, utilizing young and older talent both within Sri Lanka and from the Sri Lankan diaspora can be used, like Israel, to develop weapons suited to our needs, so that SL would not have to rely on other countries for weapons or ammunition to defend itself. While we must have our own capability to develop small arms ammunition, RPG rockets etc locally, we must initially select higher-value weapons systems for development that are too costly to buy, but are within our abilities to build, and are profitable to sell to other countries. The Arrow fast attack boats and the heavy armored personnel carriers locally built by the Navy and the Army,
respectively, are good examples.
But there are many other weapons systems, mechanical and electrical, software and hardware,
exploiting the latest developments in solid-state electronics, robotics, sensors, communications and materials that would fall
within the envelope of feasibility for us.
Finally, there are many highly qualified scientists, engineers, medical doctors, and
others, some with specialized state-of-the-art defense industry knowledge, who given the opportunity, would love to help the motherland without remuneration.
Ananda-USA:"Ultimately, its a value judgment: the actual cost Sri Lanka has incurred to date by being defenceless with a small
largely ceremonial army, far exceeds any cost we would have borne in maintaining an adequate force to defend our country."
Wijeyapala: Not necessarily. Our post-independence leaders neglected the military for 2 reasons: 1) high cost of a standing army and 2) the very real danger of military coup, as demonstrated by Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, and our very own failed 1962 coup. We
spent the money that would've gone to a large military towards getting the best health care and education in S. Asia.
Perhaps a better way to phrase it would be, "the actual cost Sri Lanka has incurred to date by murdering 3000 Tamils in 1983, far
exceeds any cost we would have borne in avoiding communal violence."
The flawed assumption is that India is our enemy and must be defended against. India did not intervene in our internal matters until Black July, and will probably not intervene again unless we do something equally stupid and self-destructive.
Annanda-USA: I agree with you that the funds we saved from military expenditures were well spent on educating and uplifting our
people, compared, for example, to India which gained independence at the same time.
The prevention of a military coup was never a concious consideration of any SL government. In any case, if the regular force is much smaller than the National Guard, as I propose, it is very unlikely that a coup-de-etat would be attempted. By the way, this is the reason for the constitutional right for people to own and bear arms in the US. A weel armed population was considered to be a deterrent to abuse by an armed government.
At independence our relations with India were so good that we did not feel, quite foolishly in retrospect, that we had any external enemies; so we didn't prepare for it. If we had paid any attention to our own history of repeated invasions from South India, we would have done otherwise.
It was the military weakness of Sri Lanka, the presence of a large Tamil population across the Palk strait, that encouraged the aggression against Sri Lanka, and the decisions by the Indira Gandhi govt (continued initially by Rajiv Gandhi also) to arm, train and support insurgents in Sri Lanka to divert Sri Lanka away from the western capitalist world back under India's socialist thumb sealed it.
You point to the riots of 1983 at the spark that triggered the conflict, but we all know that the insurgents were being trained and deposited on our soil by India itself well before that, and that it took about 4-years of killings and hit-and-run raids before 1983 for the pot to boil over in 1983. The provocation was delibrately designed to evoke the violent response it did in 1983. In the 35 years since, we have not seen a similar event. I can assure you that in India it would not have taken so long for retaliation to begin, as evidenced by the daily violence we see all over
India now on much less provocation. No segment of the Indian population would have tolerated the violence inflicted on us in SL since then.
I strongly disagree with you that it was only the "Black July" riots in 1983 that precipitated Indian intervention to partition our
country. Black July was precipitated deliberately by the Indian government to control Sri Lanka by engineering a situation that would allow it to intervene. The Tamil issue was just a convenient lever to use. Unfortunately, for India, neither Indira Gandhi nor Rajiv Gandhi initially, recognized the Greater Dravidian Nation agenda of their tool, the LTTE, and that the terorism would come home to roost all over India...but that is another fascinating story.
Indeed, India is not permanently our enemy, but as I said, we have little leverage with India in controlling Tamil Nadu or acting on perceptions to its security, however flawed that might be. We cannot depend on "good neighborliness" to assure our safety; we must prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
I am not willing to gamble the lives of our people, and the integrity of our country, on a potentially flawed assumption that
India will always be our friend. India is shortsighted as we have seen to date: it will do what is most expedient for itself at any
given time, and we will pay the price. Our enduring friendship for India as the fount of our Culture, Language and Reliogion may not be reciprocated.
I stand by my statement that the cost of not paying attention to our defense needs has exceeded the cost of maintaining a good
defense. The two decades that followed WW-II, most countries colonized by Europeans achieved independence. In the subsequent 30
years, few countries made as much headway as Sri Lanka towards social equity as literacy, the essential preconditions for economic growth. For example, I remember how backward Malaysia was then compared to Sri Lanka, yet Malaysia is now far ahead of us in
economic development. I believe that we were poised on the threshold of transforming Sri Lanka into an economic powerhouse like the so called "litte tigers": Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea. In addition to the lives lost, the failure to achieve that status is the true cost of the conflict in Sri Lanka. Instead, our literate educated people are forced into jobs as maids and servants in other countries to be abused and
humiliated.
To me, the prize at the end of the tunnel in winning this war is getting back on track towards creating a peaceful country in which all of our people can live in dignity in their native land. Given the internal and external threats we face, we have to maintain a very strong defense force to defend our country against external and internal enemies.
Ananda-USA:"What I am proposing, in effect, is not merely a standalone professional defence force, but one that is intimately
integrated into a peoples defence force consisting of the SLDA and a National Guard reserve force."
Wijeyapala: The idea is good on paper, but the reality is that you cannot have a professional military force which is simultaneously a "people's force." You can have one or the other, but the military cannot be both. Perhaps I did not understand your idea.
Ananda-USA: I mean a large regular force (500,000 strong) that forms the core, and a much larger reserve National Guard force,
essentially every adult (male and female) that can bear arms. The National Guard will be trained for a short-period every year in
rotation by the regular force, to serve in battle-field units or in supporting units, according to their ages, physical abilities
and skill-levels. The National Guard will be affiliated to the various units of the regular force, and can be called up for service as needed. This is largely, for example, how the Israeli Defence Force is structured. The idea is not only good on paper, but works in practice in many countries I have identified...this is the only way in which the preponderant military threat posed by larger potential enemies can be checkmated.
Ananda-USA:"The important thing here is to recognize that the top of the list is populated by small countries threatened by larger
enemies or by countries with more advanced military technology."
Wijeypala: Some of the countries (N. Korea, Syria) are not even democratic. Others like Greece and S. Korea have had authoritarian
histories. Syria and Cambodia have generally failed to keep their borders secure despite their large standing forces.
Israel is not comparable to Sri Lanka. Israel had fought at least 3 major wars with its neighbors from its very inception; that is
how it is able to field a conscripted force. Taiwan also has a history of conflict with China, that is not comparable to whatever
beef we had in the past with India. Any leader who tries to introduce conscription into Sri Lanka on the other hand will be out of power in a second.
Ananda-USA: Whether a country is democratic, has an authoritarian history, or has succeeded in maintaining security, are irrelevant to the perception by its leaders (acting on behalf of that country) of the threats they face. The only relevant issue here is that they do perceive a certain threat level, and have chosen the sizes of their military establishments accordingly to meet the perceived threat. That is all that I am trying to show in Table 2. How successful they have been in maintaining security, given
their systems of government, and the state of their external relations, etc are additional issues for us consider at the next
decision level. Some of these countries are certainly not good models for us to emulate, but others are. None of these countries exactly match Sri Lanka's situation, but they all share a high threat level, as we do.
Regarding the comparative willingness of Israelis and Sri Lankans to endure conscription, I strongly disagree with you. People of Sri Lanka are crying for leadership on a means of ensuring stability in their lives, and security for their children, and generations yet unborn, without having these issues to be debated only after the horse is stolen. Do we have to fall in the same hole again and again before we learn to avoid it? Look at the Swiss: there is no threat existing on their borders, and they have not been involved in either of the two world wars; yet every Swiss adult is prepared and organized to fight. Adequate organization and preparedness is the difference between countries that survive and countries that die.
Ananda-USA: "The threat Sri Lanka faces from Tamil Nadu is a permanent one that will not diminish in time. With its 60 million and growing population, Tamil Nadu's influence in India will always trump ours, and even India's own self interest."
Wijepala: If that was true, India would not have ceded Katchathivu to us in 1974, when we still had just a small ceremonial army.
Ananda-USA: In 1974, Indian policy had not yet shifted against Sri Lanka. That happened later as a result of Sri Lanka moving
away from socialist policies towards a more free-market economy oriented towards the West. Sri Lankans were tired of the socialist policies, initially beneficial to the masses, that created shortages, unemployment, low growth and unrest in the country. This was viewed by socialist leaning India, aligned with Russia, as inimical to its security. This change in policy began under Indira Gandhi, and continued under Rajiv Gandhi, until after the Indian intervention when Rajiv
recognized the threat posed to the integrity of India by the LTTE's Greater Dravidian Nation agenda. If he had been re-elected, he would have moved forcefully against the LTTE; his assisination forestalled that.
Recall also that India had few, if any, terrorist movements within India then, and never thought their LTTE client would assist terrorist groups in India, and attempt to bring down the Indian Federation as well. The subsequent growth of terrorism and civil discord in India that we see now, was catalyzed, in part, by the LTTE.
Ananda-USA:"Sri Lanka need not remain a defenceless pawn in this game; through military strength we can make the option of intervening in Sri Lanka, untenable, nonviable, impossible."
Wijepala: Again I have to respectfully ask the question: at what cost???
Ananda-USA: What is our nation's integrity and our people's lives worth to you? As you know, the actual number of Sri Lankan citizens who have died in this conflict, often blown to bits by the LTTE, greatly exceeds 100,000. We have come within a hair-breadth of a divided country. By the grace of the Holy Triple Gem, we finally have a few courageous leaders willing to fight with the will and determination required to save the
nation.
Instead of remaining to develop our own country, many of our people have fled overseas and are afraid to return until there is some assurance of future stability. In short, the kind of defence establishment I propose is both necessary and feasible, and we have no other option.
Unfortunately, "if you desire peace, prepare for war" remains a truism in this dangerous world.
Tamil Tigers building up capacity for arms shipments: analysts
LONDON, November 18, 2008 (AFP) - The Tamil Tigers are likely building up their capacity for receiving weapons shipments with two long airstrips to receive large cargo planes, respected defence analysis group Jane's said Tuesday.........
http://www.lankabusinessonline.com/fullstory.php?nid=435414887
DW: Any news on this?
According to defence.lk Progress Map, we have over run part of a place call iranamadu. Please can anyone tell where the air strip is located?
Ananda-usa,
The basic problem with using the military to spearhead development is that it's less efficient than using other means and is ultimately more costly. If you're arguing that we should use existing military resources after the war for development, such as Army engineers and naval/air facilities, then I will not disagree with that.
However if you're arguing that we should spend a fortune to expand these military resources for peacetime development, then I would disagree.
"During the last 35 years, for better or worse, Sri Lanka has gained much experience in fighting an insurgency of the worst kind. Terrorism is now a commonplace cottage industry in the world; we can offer training to the armed forces of other friendly nations in need of training."
We have already begun using our military expertise to make $$:
http://blacklightarrow.wordpress.com/2008/08/14/interview-with-the-vampyr-a-sri-lankan-mercenary-in-iraq/
"But there are many other weapons systems, mechanical and electrical, software and hardware,
exploiting the latest developments in solid-state electronics, robotics, sensors, communications and materials that would fall
within the envelope of feasibility for us."
If we had this expertise, we would be building our own UAVs instead of chasing after Israel for them.
As I mentioned previously, Israel was able to establish its indigenous defense industry only after getting billions of $$ from the US for free. We don't have that luxury.
"Finally, there are many highly qualified scientists, engineers, medical doctors, and
others, some with specialized state-of-the-art defense industry knowledge, who given the opportunity, would love to help the motherland without remuneration."
There are, and I agree that they would provide a tremendous benefit, but our political system has a way of telling these patriots to go to hell. Even the current govt. has totally failed to tap into expatriate expertise, despite the fact that Gotabhaya and Basil themselves were former expatriates.
"The prevention of a military coup was never a concious consideration of any SL government. In any case, if the regular force is much smaller than the National Guard, as I propose, it is very unlikely that a coup-de-etat would be attempted."
David Blacker suggested a regular force of 50,000-60,000 and a reserve force of equal strength. With a decently-sized police force, I think we would have sufficient deterrence against a coup attempt.
"By the way, this is the reason for the constitutional right for people to own and bear arms in the US. A weel armed population was considered to be a deterrent to abuse by an armed government."
Note that the 2nd Amendment is very controversial in the US. The "right" to bear arms has not really helped Iraq or Afghanistan that much.
"At independence our relations with India were so good that we did not feel, quite foolishly in retrospect, that we had any external enemies; so we didn't prepare for it. If we had paid any attention to our own history of repeated invasions from South India, we would have done otherwise."
I don't think it was foolish (but I do think that starting a war with the Tamils without being prepared was foolish). Ancient history does not provide appropriate analogies for the present- in the past we would outmaneuver Chola enemies by cultivating ties with their Pandyan and/or Chera rivals. In other words, there was plenty of division in India to exploit.
That situation does not exactly exist today. India is a single, though somewhat federated state- a virtual superpower compared to what it was in the past. We can reach out to countries like China and Pakistan, but their ability to counter India is limited given its size and strength. For a small country like ours, deterrence by force would not be viable.
That leaves us with other means, namely influencing India's internal politics. Some people here think that we should establish closer ties with N. India to counter the south. I would take things one step further in that we can form alliances in S. India itself that would weaken if not neutralize the threat from anti-SL forces in that region.
"It was the military weakness of Sri Lanka, the presence of a large Tamil population across the Palk strait, that encouraged the aggression against Sri Lanka,"
Yet we did not have much control over this relative military weakness. There was pretty much nothing we could do from independence onward to prepare for a full-on military confrontation with the Indian behemoth, even if we starved the country to build an army.
"You point to the riots of 1983 at the spark that triggered the conflict, but we all know that the insurgents were being trained and deposited on our soil by India itself well before that, and that it took about 4-years of killings and hit-and-run raids before 1983 for the pot to boil over in 1983."
That's not true- there is no evidence that India trained SL Tamil militants before 1983. As I've pointed out before, there were far too few militants back then to make a difference in any case. Even the mainstream parties in TN knew little about the LTTE and other groups.
The Indians only began to notice SL Tamil militancy in 1982 after the shootout between Prabakaran and Uma Maheswaran. The LTTE successfully convinced Karunanidhi, who had not previously heard of the LTTE and was in the TN opposition at that time, to push Indira Gandhi not to extradite Thalaivar to SL.
MGR, the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu was anti-Eelam until the 1983 riots. At the International Tamil Conference in Madurai in 1981, he had Amirthalingam's Eelam exhibit torn down. After the riots he not only supported Tamil separatism but patronized the LTTE to the exclusion of other militant groups.
"The provocation was delibrately designed to evoke the violent response it did in 1983."
On the contrary, the events in 1983 demonstrated that JR's government had an active role in the violence. The violence was NOT spontaneous; contrary to what JR later claimed, the Sinhala people were not predisposed to murder thousands of innocent Tamils in one week.
"In the 35 years since, we have not seen a similar event."
That is evidence that the violence was not spontaneous or engineered from outside, but rather from the inside. The same thing occurred in India in 1984 with the anti-Sikh riots- the Congress government facilitated attacks against the Sikhs after the murder of Indira Gandhi.
"we have little leverage with India in controlling Tamil Nadu or acting on perceptions to its security,"
That is because we haven't been resourceful. You can't influence TN politics, for example, if you can't even speak the local language. I can assure you that it would cost far less to improve our education system and prepare SL for proper diplomacy than to build a 500,000-man SLA that probably would not be up to the task of defeating a potential Indian invasion.
"In the subsequent 30
years, few countries made as much headway as Sri Lanka towards social equity as literacy, the essential preconditions for economic growth."
As we discussed, SL would not have achieved these things if it prioritized building a large army. We would've wound up like Burma.
"For example, I remember how backward Malaysia was then compared to Sri Lanka, yet Malaysia is now far ahead of us in
economic development."
The primary difference between SL and other countries like Malaysia and even India is that we had very poor leadership (among both the Sinhalese and the SL Tamils). We did not have an independence struggle that mobilized the entire population and united the various communities. The ancestors of the leaders who inherited power after independence were those who had sucked up to the British. They had such limited imaginations that they could not conceive of leading without resorting to communalist appeals. We are still dealing with the consequences.
"I mean a large regular force (500,000 strong) that forms the core, and a much larger reserve National Guard force,
essentially every adult (male and female) that can bear arms."
Where will you find the funds to arm each adult Sri Lanka? Will the minorities be included in this National Guard and be similarly armed?
"Some of these countries are certainly not good models for us to emulate, but others are."
Which ones? I've already shown how we cannot emulate Israel given that we do not have a similar ally/donor.
"Regarding the comparative willingness of Israelis and Sri Lankans to endure conscription, I strongly disagree with you."
It is ok to disagree. How come we have not adopted conscription so far even though we've had a very serious war for the last 25+ years?
"Wijepala: Again I have to respectfully ask the question: at what cost???
Ananda-USA: What is our nation's integrity and our people's lives worth to you?"
It's worth a lot, which is why we should be careful to avoid wasting resources on non-existent threats, or threats that we wind up creating through paranoia and ignorance.
Hiru:” The Tamil Tigers are likely building up their capacity for receiving weapons shipments with two long airstrips to receive large cargo planes, respected defence analysis group Jane's said Tuesday.
“
Mate, I aint no expert but I think it is bad timing to LTTP to attempt this now.
Especially if it is a” large cargo plane”. If it is a large cargo plane, then it will be too hard to sneak in to SL with out getting detected in SL radar’s. Even if they managed to land it then it will take too long to unload the cargo giving SLAF enough time to strike.
And if they use a large cargo plane then it is not easy to camflag like Zlins or to tow-away to a hanger or anything like that once landed.
So, LTTP should have done it when CFA was in order! If the report correct then, LTTP tried it but failed due to Russian’s crossing it.
I don’t think they will try it now but I would love if they dare to do it as then we know we can destroy next load of LTTP arti for sure!
AGG
thanks for the comments.I am with you brother...like the last parah,
"I don’t think they will try it now but I would love if they dare to do it as then we know we can destroy next load of LTTP arti for sure!"
"Airfore attacked an LTTE training camp near Oddusudan last night."
Why the news came very late???
DW
Any update on the Muhamali/Nagarkovil? have we broken through the 1st FDL or are we still at the original positions?
wijayapala,
a well thought out anwser, nicely said mate.
cheers
Andare, Me too. SF makes me proud as I also went to same school. And yes SLDF is full of oldboys.
Rana,
"It is your reading and interpretation is wrong here, not Asithri's post."
I'll post again and emphasize the part you missed.
Evidently, when he was a kid of 5 years in ***Ampara*** (yes,he was born in Balangoda in our Ruhuney),
"Indira Gandhi directed RAW to provide training, guns, explosives and money to LTTE before 1983. Indira is the real culprit of starting this war. Infact 1983 incident carefuly planned and orchestrated by RAW with the help of LTTP."
Actually there is no evidence that either Indira Gandhi or RAW was involved with the LTTE before 1983, aside from the non-extradition of Prabakaran in 1982 as I told Ananda-USA above. The LTTE was simply too small to have any significance back then. It had only a few weapons stolen from the police, and home-made explosives.
"after 1983 tamils were unhappy and most able people got away to Canada etc. Only militants thought about armed struggle."
No, most Tamils did not escape SL. Some escaped to India and even fewer emigrated to the West (although this number increased over the years), but most remained in SL. There was a large departure of Colombo Tamils to Jaffna, and Upcountry Tamils to Eastern Province and the Wanni.
There were only 30 Tigers and 200 Tamil militants combined from all groups in 1983. By late 1984 there were 1500 Tigers and over 10,000 militants total. The key event which drove the Tamil youth to arms was the 1983 riots.
Amma Gahai/Gahawi, hiru,
This Large Cargo plane thing is out of the question. You will need at least 20 mins to descend a big plane and a runaway of at least 1800ft to land and over 2000ft runaway to take off. I am not aware of how long is LTTE’s runaway.
Do you know about a thing called a Flight Plan? Search Wiki and see. You can’t fly without an Air Plan. Air is not like the sea.
The best thing is that no Air Craft can come into the Indian air space without the approval of India. The Indian Air space is about 2 flight hours away from Sri Lanka. It’s out machan.
But, with Indias’ knowledge yes. But, very unlikely. (Tuk tuk is a different story)
Ananda, one last comment: To prepare against an external threat (either a foreign state intervention, or Tamil diaspora hoping to rearm LTTE remnants), the best investment would be towards the SLN and SLAF, not the SLA, since we have no land borders to defend. A future external enemy would have to fly or swim to reach us.
Nemesis: Thanks.
B#: "Airfore attacked an LTTE training camp near Oddusudan last night."
Why the news came very late???
Mate, u broke the news about the navel attack first here and now this. So, if u got some insight on this let us know too.
Wijayapala: yep, very good answer! I am with u on a small army. We can not win a war with India with out a massive support from China or Pakistan. Too many fcuking Indians simply! : ))
I like small but highly skilled army so we are kind of step ahead of our retarded neighbors.
Using Army engineers and doctors ect is not efficient. If we need an engineer then we should have specialized engineers working full time.
And like the idea of getting friendly with South India. Smart and it will be easy to con bunch of monkeys anyway! : ))
What SL should develop in to is a highly skilled work force. With all these Intelligent Tamils moving back to Sl will fix this.
Develop quickly with lot of money circling around will atke care of any more up-rising of Tamils or JVP.
Only thing I am not with u is event like 83 repeating. U seems paranoid about this!
Annada-USA, no disrespect to u but I found Wijayapal’s idea is more effective and practical. Keep on working on ur strategy and u may find a better way to implement ur ideas and u might even come-up with a better idea to Wije’s.
Dear Patriots...good day to all. Got the following from a freind. Like to share with you. Hope you like it.
Ammm I wonder whether AGG is behind this ...:)
http://www.crazylanka.com/
The tropical island of Sri Lanka boasts lush vegetation amongst which are a very large number of useful plants. These have largely been ignored in standard books on Botany and/or have been given ridiculous Latin binomials and Western names.
We are in the process of cataloguing such plants. Contributions welcome!
Halapeniya othaniya Native n.: "Kenda kola", Latin binomial: nk
This plant grows mostly in the wetlands and generally near tea shacks along the Bandaragama - Piliyandala road and has been used since Portuguese times to wrap Halapa (a flat, sweet, steamed pudding made of millet flour, coconut and jaggery).
Halapa was, surprisingly, named after a Portuguese by the name of General Dom Alonzo de Fernao who arrived in Sri Lanka on the 18th of June 1558 and was placed in charge of the fort at Kalutara.
He was of portly proportions and his main achievement in life was to fall into the Kalu Ganga near Narthupana. Thereupon he shouted "Help! Help!".
The natives were amused by this spectacle and promptly called him "Help-aya" or "Halp-aya" this latter being a mispronunciation of "Help" (as in "Mata halp ekak karanna puluwanda?")
At that time the natives of this area were partial to "Thalapa" and Fernao developed a liking for it and frequently would ask the natives for Thalapa. This quickly became "Halap-ayata thalapa....Thalap-ayata halapa...Halapaya! Thalapaya.. etc" and eventually Thalapa became Halapa.
To this day the leaves of this plant are used to wrap Halapa, although leaf shaped sheets of thin, green polythene (sili-sili Halapa kola) are entering the market. The plant has no other known useful function.
Footnote: The Kalu Ganga at Narthupana, where Dom Alonzo fell into the river, can now be safely crossed by means of the new Japanese built bridge. Most locals though, still remember the story of "Halapaya"! (Ask Alponsu Aiya in the first Coca Cola shack next to the old bridge). Narthupana may be reached by the Nagoda junction on the south side of the river. At Tebuwana, just before Narthupana, the river does a rather unusual 90 degree turn. Unusual in the sense that there are no rapids or whirlpools. Worth looking out for!
Apino: ha ha ha nice one! No no not me mate!!
Boys, I am off for the day and going to have a midweek beer : )) with 2 of my SL mates! All the best to SLDF and catch u guys tomorrow.
Wijayapala
/Evidently, when he was a kid of 5 years in Ampara (yes, he was born in Balangoda in our Ruhuney),../-Asithri
/ ..if you claim that real "patriots" would not make such a dumb mistake as to claim Ambalangoda (or Balangoda) is in Ampara District,../-Wijayapala
/It is your reading and interpretation is wrong here, not Asithri's post./-Rana
I agree with Rana. I don't see asithri saying Balangoda belongs to Ampara district. He rather says SF was born in Balandgoda and at age 5 he was in Ampara.
Now what is Ruhuna? We now do not have formally any area called Ruhuna. Some people mistakenly refer Ruhuna as current sourthern province but it is wrong. Historicaly Ruhuna was the area bound by south of Mahaweli river, south of hill country and south of Valave (?) river. So both Balangoda and Ambalangoda is in this historical Ruhuna.
Please Update about the Muhamalai FDL Attak going on now...
Asithri,
Brother, I respect your views and what you think, and your right to express it freely.
I will try to briefly summarise his position as I see it:
In my view, Wjayapala is not approving LTTP actions very much and according to him sinhala community is not 100% innocent in this conflict, Also some of our past govt's escalate this war unnecessarily.
These are the views, I may agree to a certain extent. I do not agree with his other views.
However, we cannot deny him the right of expressing himself. If he is trying to hide his real identity like a spy, we will expose him. All are innocent until proven guilty.
Tamil people may not approve and support LTTP but they feel proud about them, They also deep down want them to succeed. We cannot stop that unless they feel they are safe with sinhala people. What they have seen is some sinhala people change suddenly from a friend to a enemy during riots.
I had first hand experience of two communal riots. 1981 in Balangoda and 1983 in Colombo south. Those grusome events, I have seen is still haunting me. No body can approve doing such things to another human being. That is what vesapille exploited to gain support from majority of tamil people.
What my position is, I will give him a fair hearing. Unlike most of other zakkiliyas, I found Wijayapala as an intellectual with whom we can discuss things broadly and deeply.
I always believe, we need to have a ongoing dialogue with educated tamil people to solve this distrust and rejection between two communities.
I used to pass rice and our usual curries to a tamil family over the wall about 25 years ago in SL. I also used to recieve dosei, string hoppers and various type of sweets from that family. We were very friendly till 1983 riots. Then his house was attacked, looted and burned. I hid them in my garage for two days risking my own safety from angry, drunken mobs. Finally I dropped them at Ratmalana Air port refugee camp.
On my experience most of tamil people are nice and friendly people.
One last thing: Whatever the cause I will never ever approve what LTTP is doing. They must be eliminated completely until last tiger is dead for attrocities they have committed so far.
Ponna Mahen said....
Face the reality madams. Every single defence analyst known to man has said that the SLA is yet to come acroos the experienced fighting formations of the LTTE, the day will come when the experienced fighting formations will be unleashed and all your gains will be reversed in a matter of days like what happened in Jayashitkuru. Don't believe all the crap written in 3rd party blogs and propoganda defence sites. Think laterally. Now you are calling me a mental case, soon you will be calling me the messiah when the truth is revealed.
What Happend in Jayasikuru ahhhh...?
we had to halt Jayasikuru because those days we didn't have MBRL's against "Ceaseless Wave" attacks. Ha Ha Ha...just try and see what will happen to your "Hardcore" cadres.
MBRL's are specially made to destroy a large area. It is one of the best ways to counter "Wave type" attacks.
Wijayapala
/As I said, you cannot have a war without an army./
Are we in a word game here? Even MR said few days ago there is no 'war' in SL, its just military (humanetarian) operations. And as I know only in RW's CFA we accepted LTTE has an 'army'.
My point was LTTE (and other groups) have already started armed struggle for a seperate state well before 83. Your point was they have small numbers and they grew drasticaly after 83. Agree, but its not that some sinhala thugs killed 2000-3000 tamils and after that VP and his friends deciding to be armed.
VP got his first target in 70s and right now we are fighting with 130mm hovitzers. So this started small and grew big. No mattar when you take as the "starting day" of "war" military sruggle started before 83. I belive such armed struggle was motivated by JVP insurgency in 71 and ideas for armed revolution for socalism apart from well known tamil racism and sinhala policy makings.
rana well said machan.......
IMHO we shud be able to have a educated/intelligent discussion with anyone even if he is Pro LTTE, becaue peacefull conversation is the only way to ease tensions and come to compromises that will increase the credibility and the trust the tamils have that there are more peacefull methods to conflict resolution than joining VP and his mindless gang....
each one is entitled to his or her opinion and as long as they are expressed peacefully and humanely over a cup of coffee or a internet blog, we shud not get all worked up (and boil our blood and shout in obscene language at them). Such action will only give credibility to the voice of the violent ones who are saying that there is no other way but fighting/killing.
Rana, I wish I could have expressed myself like you. Well said! Entirely agree with you. I saw what happened in Wellawatte & Dehiwela in 1983 and my sincere hope is that it never happens again!
"I had first hand experience of two communal riots. 1981 in Balangoda and 1983 in Colombo south. Those grusome events, I have seen is still haunting me. No body can approve doing such things to another human being. That is what vesapille exploited to gain support from majority of tamil people."
Discussing things broadly and deeply is the need of the hour!
"What my position is, I will give him a fair hearing. Unlike most of other zakkiliyas, I found Wijayapala as an intellectual with whom we can discuss things broadly and deeply.
I couldn't agree with you more on what you said below!
"I always believe, we need to have a ongoing dialogue with educated tamil people to solve this distrust and rejection between two communities."
Guys any news from the front? What I hear about the national front is not very good :(
DW and other defence experts, I have a question.
The 59 Div has advanced a fair bit from where it started. Is there any other division that is securing the areas captured by them so that they can continue to move forward? And what about their flank on the Western side? The more they advance the more vulnerable that flank becomes! The tigers could hit them from behind, cant they?
Appreciate your thoughts, thanks.
Guys, I appreciate the time you put on long discussions with Wijayapala. And I dont like to coin him to any side. But the fact remains that these lengthy discussions about more futuristic or historical topics sink the much needed day-today issues.
Whether it was Wijayapala's intention - I do not know. But let's talk about current happenings a bit more. Right now, Wijayapala is [perhaps unintentionally] doing exactly what Mahen and co are doing. That is to take our attention out of current affairs of the battle front.
I hope I was not rude to Wijayapala or shut him up.I just want others to discuss "other" matters too.
DW, any news on Muhamalai?
Wijayapala
/"2. Tamil seperatism started only after 56"
It began after 1956 but did not achieve a critical mass among the Tamils until 1983. In between, most Tamils saw some kind of devolution as a compromise, and only a few saw it as a halfway point to a separate state./
I can easliy agree seperatism got mass public support after 56 and again 83. But "problem" was there well before 56.
In early stages (british era) tamils (Jaffna/high caste/elite group) was in control for whole SL, in some sense. With independence (democrazy) full control bocame no-control and 50-50 came and later changed it into federel state and then apgraded to seperate state.
So obviously elite talmis had no reason to work on a seperate NE state as they were already enjoynig political dominance in whole SL in pre-independendt SL. You may be right in saying 'tamil seperatism' started after 56. But the problem whatever you call it was there well before that.
/And what is the position of the Tamil Community? I want to repeat that our position is this. We are inhabitants of this country. We have lived here and a branch of the Tamil Community has lived here possibly longer than our brethren the Sinhalese. This is our home./-Ponnambalam (at 1939 state council)
Katch,
What did you hear about the national front?
Blogger Katch said...
DW and other defence experts, I have a question.
The 59 Div has advanced a fair bit from where it started. Is there any other division that is securing the areas captured by them so that they can continue to move forward? And what about their flank on the Western side? The more they advance the more vulnerable that flank becomes! The tigers could hit them from behind, cant they?
Exact point. The gap between Padaviya and Vavunia. In fact you're right now you can hink that it extends to Kokilai itself. If the pussycats end up being no places tio defend they will aim there. If they come in big numbers they might even enter east too.
I am yet to hear any clarification on the opening there.
Ninja...
Yes u r correct...!
Wijayapala
/"5. AnagarikaD didn't fight for independence"
Here's what I told Amma-GG last month:/
Well, independence/ freedom means (official) political independence for most of us. But in broad sense it should include political, economical, cultural and social independence/ freedom.
AD fought mainly for cultural independence/ freedom and up to great extend for economics freedom/ independence. This in turn motivated poitical front.
From the silence of the govt side I think we are not doing too well in the national front
ninja/rana/thoughtful guy,
I think you guys have the right approach. After all this is a blog, and a place to exchange ideas. To think that some group is an exclusive group of 'patriots' who are protecting this blog is quite funny. Anybody can pretend to be someone else - adults can read and decide for themselves who's who.
The real patriots are on the ground fighting to protect our motherland. So lets support and encourage them in fighting the real terrorists - instead of attacking anyone who has a different opinion and thinking that's serving some greater purpose.
Puran Appu,
What I heard was there are lot of wounded being brought to many hospitals. I presume its from the national front.
Defence.lk is also rather silent which is generally an indication that things are not too good. I really hope that its not as bad as last time.
Master,
"The real patriots are on the ground fighting to protect our motherland. So lets support and encourage them in fighting the real terrorists - instead of attacking anyone who has a different opinion and thinking that's serving some greater purpose."
Certainly agree with you!
To all the Eelam bastards who think they represent the tamil community, this I hope is a most delightful spit in the face....
http://www.army.lk/morenews.php?id=18321
See...they are carrying the Lions flag, not the tigers one, welcome to reality bitch, this is SRI LANKA Mess with the best and Die like the rest!!!
Sujeewa kokawela said....
he gap between Padaviya and Vavunia. In fact you're right now you can hink that it extends to Kokilai itself. If the pussycats end up being no places tio defend they will aim there. If they come in big numbers they might even enter east too.
I also feel the same. If they come in big numbers the FDL could fall. Our strategists should look into this as quickly as possible. we should always pro act NOT Re act.
( From Illamaruthankulam upto Maruthoda ).
Gentlemen,
Please refrain from using filth, personal attacks and character assasinations in this blog, kindly moderate your language.
The killings must stop, from both sides. We need a ceasefire immeadiately. Both sides need to come to the negotiating tables and discuss a peaceful plan of seperation.
All Eelam citizens, please remember your fallen cadres in your daily prayers.
Sujeewa,
Yes, if the 59 div spreads itself too thin, the eastern side of the vanni and the country could become very vulnerable in the event of a big attack. The 59 div have the jungles behind them and the built up areas in front on them. So only one division on the east and all the other offensive divisions are on the west!
So if they hit the 59 from behind they can isolate them. That is my fear. Of course as you pointed out, they could hit Trinco if they come through there.
/We need a ceasefire immeadiately. Both sides need to come to the negotiating tables and discuss a peaceful plan of seperation./
Ceasefire...ya we can give another one or two...how many you exactly need? hak hak ha...(But the problem is mahen doesn't like ceasefires...he s waiting for counter offensive and eventual peelaam in 9 days.. ha ha ha..so first negotiate with him.)
Do you have a table?...ha ha..I like to negotaite...but I can't find a table...hak hak haaaa....We have all kind of entetainers here...from sinhala blood thirsty thaka-thirus to non violanace selvas, economic expert navindrans to uktra-dumb mahens ha ha all are good clowns.
Selva, in the nicest possible language, the conditions for a ceasefire are clear. LTTE has to lay down their arms and surrender. So please work on that along with the rest of the diaspora.
Selva,
Have you told the ltte that the killings must stop?
Since it was the ltte that went to war asking for separation ask them to stop first :) You can't ask the other side to stop when they are finishing what you guys started! Can you ? :)
No Cease Fire should be granted, untill Eelam is given up, till there is no ripping of Sri Lanka apart, I want my descendants to get in a bus and go allover the country, without fear of beng killed by a bomb, assassinated by gun shots and go from one end of the country to the other freely knowing that, this is also his country, he has the right to live where he pleases,sleep where he pleases, eat where he pleases.I remind you I am not a Singhalese, but a Sri Lankan
Selva, Ninja is right!
You will be putting Mahen in a difficult situation and prevent him from taking Nachchikuda before the 27th if you go for a ceasefire now! :)
In fact he's missing since I called him a RAW agent! I must have hit a nerve :)
Mahen is just a misguided boy, please ignore him.
Not all proponents of Eelam are blood thirsty, gun totting rascals. Eelam has been a concept from the early part of the 20th Century, much like the Indian Muslims' aspirations for a seperate homeland, i.e., Pakistan.
As things turned out, no Tamil political party was able to lucidly express self determination, LTTE was the only party that was willing to take the struggle all the way. Whilst I don't agree with LTTE's violent conduct, I wholeheartedly support their zeal to free the Tamils from oppression and establish a homeland. Therefore, the LTTE leaders and their cadres are fighting for a noble cause.
Selva go carve your Eelam in India, not Sri Lanka..that we all have been fighting for, Sri Lanka is one, Sri Lanka is from Jaffna to the south most tip of this country, it was and will be.
Selva, "free the Tamils from oppression" and "noble cause" are strange claims considering that VP's hereditary dictatorship lack all forms of human rights.
Some past attempts at ceasefires with the LTTE:
http://www.peaceinsrilanka.org/peace2005/Insidepage/SCOPPDaily_Report/SCOPP_report041108.asp
"We need a ceasefire immeadiately."
Yes, you do, in order save VP's tyranny.
Gents,
May I remind you that it was GOSL that abrogated the CFA, not the LTTE. Yes, the LTTE cut off Mavil Aru anicut, but their intentions were noble, they only wanted poor Tamil farmers to get their fair share of water so that they can cultivate their crops and feed their families. Cutting off a water supply started a war, GOSL was just waiting for an excuse for a war, they could have negotiated the anicut issue peacefully, but they didn't.
We cannot lay down arms at this juncture as we are only protecting our citizens from genocide and wanton acts of aggression.
The day will come when we will all be able to travel freely around the Island, there will just be a border post at Omanthai, however, we will not harass anyone, we would like to live peacefully with our neighbours.
any news about mankulam or oddusudan fronts?
the muhamalai operation was a limited operation to clear tiger build-up in the area.
according to what i hear, SLA has got back to original positions after the swift attack. in the NF, the FDL is a wide stretch across a wide no-man's land. holding tiger's 1st FDL continuously is difficult without a continuing operations.
Selva, please read this:
http://www.peaceinsrilanka.org/peace2005/Insidepage/SCOPPDaily_Report/SCOPP_report041108.asp
Why are you trying to save a particularly brutal dictatorship lacking all human rights?
Moshe-
Did you get my mail ?
I wholeheartedly support their zeal to free the Tamils from oppression and establish a homeland. Therefore, the LTTE leaders and their cadres are fighting for a noble cause.
/Eelam has been a concept from the early part of the 20th Century,/
Please educate peelamists like peter 'eelam' was not even a concept before early part of 20th century. Also, please give more evidence to wijayapala it was started before 56.
Selva-
People like you miss-guide kids like Mahen.
Do n't you find your self is responsible for taking lives like those away?
Guys,
News from M and K fronts is not good, heavy casualties and hospitals in Anuradhapura overflowing, my sis in law lives close to the hospital, this is first hand news. I was warning that we were getting too cocky by advancing on the M and K fronts before capturing Paranthan, looks like we have committed the same mistake again. When will we ever learn!
Also, this is my feeling only, troops on the Jaffna fronts are not as competent as the ones on the wanni fronts, or is it a leadership issue, any thoughts?
"The day will come when we will all be able to travel freely around the Island, there will just be a border post at Omanthai, however, we will not harass anyone, we would like to live peacefully with our neighbours."
Like between India and Pakistan? You are quite funny, thanks for the entertainment.
/Also, this is my feeling only, troops on the Jaffna fronts are not as competent as the ones on the wanni fronts, or is it a leadership issue, any thoughts?/
No machan..it was due to territory.
Rana,
Im very much of respecting your views regarding tamils. Very well said.
BTW, you said "1983 in Colombo south". May I know where is the exact place you were at that time please???
MZ-
Thanks for sharing that info.
DW team-
What are your thought about SLA Jaffna fronts leadership please ?
Selva said....
they could have negotiated the anicut issue peacefully, but they didn't.
Negotiating peacefully with the LTTE...? They are the one's who broke the ceasefire. more the 4500 ceasefire violations. even they tried to kill SF and assassinated so many educated and well known people like Lakshman Kadiragamar.
From JR's ceasefire up to Ranil's LTTE is solely responsible for violations and killings.
we are only protecting our citizens from genocide.
you eat Genocide for breakfast, lunch and dinner. whole world knows that you LTTE maggots are keeping the inncocent civilians by force.
The day will come when we will all be able to travel freely around the Island, there will just be a border post at Omanthai, however, we will not harass anyone, we would like to live peacefully with our neighbours.
Keep dreaming Maggot...! Keep dreaming...!!!
B#1 / Rana-
Seen the 13 Soldiers funeral / seen the starting point as well as next day's burning buildings.
Most of those things carried out by jobless who had a good looting session.
Mohammed Zubair, sorry to hear that. But we do not know LTTE losses. The LTTE has been able to prepare the Jaffna front for years so it should be the strongest they have. Probably far more difficult than the infamous earth bund was. They should also have many lines to fall back on and the narrow front make encirclement difficult.
But as you note once we take Paranthan LTTE will either have abandon this or stay and be under cross-fire and cut-off from supplies and reinforcements.
Infinity,
Exactly! I don't understand the urgency in capturing M and K lines before securing Paranthan! Can any of you guys clarify the logic in advancing on M and K fronts before Paranthan. I understand and support limited operations on the M and K fronts, but can't see the reasoning behind a full frontal assault.
/We have advanced over 2kms but at a cost...over 50 SLA died we believe that ltte casulties are also high but the numbers are not known yet... over 20 ltte were reported killed on the first day.../SF-LNP
I guess the motive behind this move is to kill as many as hard core LTTE elites in the M/NK line. It seems SLA think its better to figh with LTTE elites there rather than in Mulathiv jungles later.
hmmmmmm..I m defa not a military expert, but why are we so adamant that we want to proceed in the national front.... what we could have done is release a few battalions from the 53rd and ferry them across to the Task Force I and made it a full division and then push towards Pranthan, and once we take we could have gone down towards kili, so the they will have to shift the big guns further interior and that wud have taken the National front out of their arti range, then the 55th and the remaining battalions of the 53rd could have come down while TF1 push up at EP..this way we could have sandwiched the tigers at EP and made a good kill while minimising our casualities...
Mohammed Zubair, DW and DN has written that LTTE has a reserve of experienced fighters at Jaffna. Maybe a small scale attack at Jaffna prevent them from reinforcing Paranthan with experienced fighters, ammo, or good leaders.
Also, if the LTTE and the army suffers an equal loss of experienced fighters then the army still win since it is much larger.
perein,
i have replied.
Infinity,
The loss of even one soldier saddens me deeply, let alone 30! I understand the logic in harvesting experienced cadres, but the kill ratio is not very good.
Good that we are talking about about defence matters again as the monkeys have left. Their silence is suspicious though.
The reason we are doing that is if TF1 s you say hit Parathan, take it over 2 outcomes could take place.
1. The Eliite cadres who are out in the open,(target practice) would attack us in the camaflage, they wouldnt wait for us to box them in, they would escape via Nagar Kovil.
2. If Parathan is captured and LTTE decides to hold the position theres another problem, its gona be a long wait for the fall, they will hold seige, another Nachchikuda, which would make this war spill over way..past the deadline.
To be able to beat them in time and over run them better, the airforce should have done what the US did in Afghanistan, dump bombs in 100's on there front line for days and days, then once this happens the impact would be drastic with high casualties on only one side, right now we are running screaming Geronimo while they are buckled waiting for us from there trenches.
ninja,
true, i also got the information that we have forwarded about 2km's.
@ Punisher,
Isn't it exactly this type of WW1 trench warfare that we want to avoid at all costs?
Puran Appu
Why isn't the defence source admitting the 2km advance, if true, isn't this a major achievement?
Moshe-
Will have to wait till get home to check the mail mate.
Thanks
Puran Appu, have we advance 2km on both fronts?
I mean Muha & NK
b#1,
Brother, I was residing in my official CEB quaters at sea side road from "GONA MADAMA" (I can't remember the exact name, it sounded like gona madama) handiya. That road is opposite to Water Supply and Drainage Board HQ.
I was operation and maintenance engineer incharge for the area. from Moratuwa, Koralawell to Dehiwala, Nugegoda, Pita Kotte, Nawinna, Maharagam Pannipitiya and Piliyandala including Boralsgamuwa and Atthidia was my area.
In Aththidiya, I saw dead bodies of 07 muslims, all hack to death by mistake because they could not say BALDIYA properly.
That is the most grusome sceen, I have ever seen in my life. Which I will never forget. I had to go every where to isolate CEB assets from burning due to arson attacks.
Therefore I have seen many violent sceens than most of others. In Gall Road, Wellawattha I saw one tamil person burned alive inside his benz car. He has gone over a female market vender, when she jumped to the road to stop him, he has bumped her without stopping the car because of fear, so the mob burned him alive.
That is why I said when Wijayapala said, we sinhalese are not 100% innocent on this conflict, I may agree with him.
I was also, CEB area engineer for Balangoda in 1981 and saw our patriotic brothers hammer poor tea state labourers who has done nothing against us.
These attrocities and violance are wrong irrespective to the side you are belonging.
However, these incidents are not pre planed by manupulators. These are just "SODA BOTTLE" actions by our low level hooligans.
When LTTP suicide bombers blew up bus load of civilians, it is cold blooded premeditated murder.
100% of LTTP acts were cold blooded and pure premeditated murder.
Therfore, 1983 or 1981 is no excuse for LTTP. They are guilt as charged.
Guys,
Another thing we must guard against is becoming complacent or cocky thinking we have won already. Remember in Jayasikurui, we had advanced beyond Mankulam from the south and were around Iranamadu in the North when the ltte hit back. I think they will wait again until we lower our guard. We must not lower our guard after taking Poonaryn!
Zubair
Of course, but they are dug in and we are not, as long as they thrive in trenches, we get shot, what we need to do is make them run out of there trenches in the open, by the dropping of bombs you also bring in the psycho war factor in, where the sound and boom will bring fear, thats also an added advantage, right now where loosing lives, soldiers should have been held back a little longer the man power and gone buzzark with the shelling we would have obtained greater results.
Mohammed Zubair,
Of course it is.
We should expect high casualties here after even though we don’t like to hear it.
LTTE got no where to withdraw now. Now, is the real do or die battle for them. It’ll be really hard to break their FDL’s at M/NK. But, as soon as it’s cleared we will experience the same thing what we experienced from Vanneri Kulam to Pooneryn by the 58th division.
Upto EPS their will be a quick march by the 53rd Division.
LTTE is calling it as the national front, see how important this FDL for them. They have built this line really strong with a lot of trenches and Strong heavily for-tiled Bunkers. It’s not possible for the Mechanical Infantry Brigade to play a major role because tigers have dug deep broad trenches to prevent the tanks crossing their FDLs. That’s why the casualties are so high. What to do, we can’t say that it’s a wrong move by the military. They will have to make this move.
Guys,
over 50 P1 casualties been brought to the Jayawardenapura hospital since yesterday eve.
I wonder how many defence lines the LTTE have above EP. They have had many years so prepare, so they should have built several so even if K and M falls there should be another one at maybe at Pallai and more.
But then again the LTTE seem to have had no serious defence line behind their earth bund. They seem to have expected this to hold and seem to have not used the time gained from this to build new good lines behind it. Like at Pooneryn which had many good natural fortifications such as "moat" marshes which with some well-built fortifications and bunds should have been very difficult to penetrate. Hopefully the LTTE have been similarly overconfident and neglectful at Jaffna.
katch,
Muhamalai yes. Nagarkovil i am not sure.
There was a guy here called Kaati who claimed to be ex LTTE and said that shellings, bombings hardly affected them as were well dug in at the trenches and it didn't affect or harm them. If these FDLs are manned by LTTE "Civil Defence" cadres, then it can create mass fear, but these are manned by hardcore cadres and they know this game well and can withstand. Yes, we need to make the move at some point, but should not throw caution to the wind.
Infinity,
To my knowledge 3 lines. But, we never know. We haven't been there.
lookie lookie here!
Some Jaffna Modayas join Sinhala Modayas!
Let Modayas prevail!
It's a bottle neck guys
Katch,
About Mankulam..
I think this fact is foremost in General Fonseka's mind. This point is on his lips all the time. Surely he has prepared for this eventuality.
Rain of insults or rain of filth
Only says
My convictions are feeble and false,
My logic is meek and weak.
Filth can be of several kinds.
They all deserve the
same contempt.
Support for suicide killing
Support for terrorism (USA does it, India does and who doesn’t , BECAUSE IT SERVES THE SHORT SIGHTED GOALS.)
Using insults instead of reasoning
Using insults because the other person started it
Using filth to attack an opponent, not realising that filth use d against another only degrades the one who uses it not the person who is attacked by it
Using motherhood/fathehood to express anger (f word, d word or c word) I wonder how one can use ‘Mother’ to attack another. What has happened to my species?
Also talking about ceasefire at this moment without having LTTE to surrender their arms
What is not filth:
Support for separatism is not filth.
Once, even though I am Sinhalese as documented on my birth certificate ,(Dr. E.W. Adikaram used a Mathematical argument to convince me that I or anybody else cannot be pure Sinhalese or German or Tamil. If I am a pure Sinhalese, going backward in time would produce a Universe that was filled only by my ancestors due to exponential growth, , where x is the number of generations counted backward taking three generations per century.) I was sympathetic to separatism since my Government did not protect innocent people. Then later I was sympathetic to separatism with out LTTE, since LTTE is utter filth. For the reason that according to my perception Sinhalese people and the Government are behaving more maturely I do not think separatism as the best solution. In fact, it could create more problems. Even though some kind of power devolution-not based on race- (any Sinhalese/Tamil/Muslim can buy land no Ethnic group tries to undermine the other each group acknowledge the magnanimity of the other (yes we all have our faults), we all belong to Sri Lanka, if you are born in Sri Lanka you are not a migrant etc. Language of learning and teaching is both Sinhalese and English (Morning-English, Evening-Sinhalese) for Sinhalese, Tamil and English for Tamils etc.
Even though I do not follow any religion I would like to see that all religions are respected and supported-but there is no state religion) etc. Among all religions I respect Buddhism because of the saying in Alara Kalama Suthra and I believe that Buddha would have not supported Buddhism being the state religion. Also, Buddha would have proclaimed that he was not a Buddhist since he did not want be a prisoner of an ideology.
Rather than power devolution, what is more necessary is proper development, equal opportunities and cultural and civil maturity, appreciation and understanding common cultural events. Power devolution is OK if necessary, But what is necessary is to work hard to achieve real unity. Separatism is bad for both Tamils and Sinhalese, but we need to be mature.
If mob again takes to the streets and Government looks in the other way, then my will not be to “separatism” but for separate planet-arism (different planet for each group). More civilised we are we can even become the Federal of Asia.
Since it has been pointed out in the blog several times that this is only a forum for defence issues, I am sorry that I budged in and for that and since I do not intend to master delivery of filth from now on I may refrain from posting. I thought before my good-bye I should explain my stand point. Thanks!
Puran, Thanks mate.
DW,
Shall appreciate your opinion regarding the question I asked about the 59 div. Thanks
Thambala,
TF 3 is in Mankulam.I'm not worried about that. But 59 div is heading to the tiger den in Mulathiv without any other divisions close by.If they link with TF 3 then no problem. However, that's along way away. The tigers could hit 59 div from behind. If they have taken precautions well and good. But if it is a big attack?
Swarnajith,
There are more people in this blog who communicate without using filth. You can also communicate in the same manner if that is how you wish to communicate.
All,
As far as wijayapala goes, he is Tamil Sri Lankan with a certain bias. This is not wrong. Unlike the other LTTE stooges who come here to litter the blog, Wijayapla brings in some substance. If we want to build consensus with the all Sri Lankans, Wijayapala is the kind we want to build consensus with, not other little jokers who shout. We need a rigorous discussion with Tamil Sri Lankans to heal this national agony. Anyway, lets treat Wijayapala with some respect and discuss issues based on the merit of the facts we present. This is one of the best dialogs I ever saw in this blog. Keep it going.
SU
/,(Dr. E.W. Adikaram used a Mathematical argument to convince me that I or anybody else cannot be pure Sinhalese or German or Tamil. If I am a pure Sinhalese, going backward in time would produce a Universe that was filled only by my ancestors due to exponential growth, , where x is the number of generations counted backward taking three generations per century.)/
Only a fool like Adikaram can argue like this. We refer sinhala as a concept valid in today's time going back not more than 2500 years. (Well, if you belive in Ravana stories...more than 2500 years yet finite time.) Adikaram was not able to understand 'sinhala' is not an 'eternel' concept.
Swarnajith Udana.......yes..... what u say is true....... any discussion shud be civilised, specailly if its about ones beliefs, and aspirations. This does not mean that we shud preach and show the other cheek when a terra is trying to kill you...there is a time and place for violence and there is a time and place for intelligent discssuion....
if only everyone here understood that (and were not immature to get agitated by some who must be laughing their heads off seeing how easily some of our bloggers get agitated, and how proudlt they pronounce they have "fought against and rid the blog of the terrosits".... )
anyways, back to the topic at hand.... the push in M&N..hmmmmmmm...... wsnt there a school of thought that by doing probing operations, we have actualy managed to tie down a bulk of the experienced LTTE's in M&N while we slowly cut them off from behind and take up other strategic locations, which are more imprtnat than EP in the bigger picture of events...
Katch,
Don’t worry much about the western flank of the 59th Division. Even though we don’t see in the map as liberated, our troops dominate it. Lt.Gen. Fonseka explained this recently. Upto Kanakarayankulam it’s nothing to worry. The area is been dominated by the Special Forces small teams.
This time unlike those days, the Military have got the correct leadership that it should get. They really know what they are doing.
Puran,
Thanks machang, relieved to hear that we dominate that area. However, I was under the impression that Nedunkerni was a major tiger bastion.
Ninja:
In your answer you used an insult (fool) to a very gentle human being who has passed away.
Aren't you saying the same thing that I am saying, but in a different way? There is no pure anybody, what matters is what is happening to us right now.
In a sense your version of saying it, is much richer than how I say it since it argues for the safety and well-being of Sinhalese. I too want that. I argue for the safety of Tamils and Muslims, I believe that you want that too. I cannot believe that you do not want that.
Remember I am not a Patriot.
If you were a British when they oppressed Sri Lanka would you have supported British or Sri Lanka. Once I asked this question from Nanda Malani in a letter. I am not a patriot. I am a Sri Lankan ‘Sinhalese’ humanist. (Sinhalese in the sense that you defined it not that there is Pure Sinhalese. Well done It says what I said and a little bit more. If you do not see that please think again.
It does not matter where the arrow came from, it hurts us and it might kill us. Let us take the arrow away and treat the wound first. That is Buddha’s teaching.
The blog is only for patriots. I should not budge in anymore.
GOOD BYE!
Katch,
Nedunkerni was, not anymore.
Swarnajith Udana,
This is not a religious blog.
Nor this is supposed to be a history blog. The original purpose of this is long. The Modaya that I am I can't help visit this blog. But since you are a wise man it is a wise decision to leave the blog.
Good luck!
SU
/In your answer you used an insult (fool) to a very gentle human being who has passed away./
I replied only regarding the 'arguement'. If Amma Gahai said such a thing its all right - nice joke. But Adikaram was not supposed to be any entetainer but a serious person. When such a person give an arguement it should be without errors.
I agree, there is no such "pure" races. But the arguement was wrong. You talk about 'sinhala' and in the same arguement you go back in time indefinetly while 'sinhala' is not there any more.
Adikaram may be your hero but this kind many such arguements given by him made me to see him as a fool; Its my view.
/Aren't you saying the same thing that I am saying, but in a different way? There is no pure anybody,../ yep.
/Sinhalese in the sense that you defined it not that there is Pure Sinhalese./
Sinhalese don't have this kind of "pure" mentiality. Its our monkey friends who think like this.
FYI: Kowing buddhism is good: But partial, incomplete knowledge may lead you to desastor.
I guess, this may what happaned to Adikaram.
Defence.lk Reports,
Troops of 57 Division operating in Kilinochchi battle front had heavy confrontations with LTTE terrorists yesterday, 18 November.
According to the defence sources, troops stepped up further into LTTE terrain despite the LTTE resistance in general area northeast of Akkarayankulam and north of Therumurukanddi.
It is observed that LTTE terrorists have constructed another earth bund across the Pooneryn - Paranthan (B-69) road to resist the security forces movement into LTTE heartland Kilinochchi built-up. However, the troops are now on their way to dominate the earth bund which runs southwards of Paranthan covering Kilinochchi built-up area.
Intercepting LTTE communication channels, it is revealed that LTTE suffered heavy casualties in the confrontations.
Guys,
This is an excerpt from the uthr report of 31st Oct.
" The government set up camps in Kallimodai and Sirukandal near Murunkan in the Mannar District for persons who escaped from the LTTE-controlled areas. Some paid boatmen several lakhs of rupees for a ride into the government-controlled areas. Initially the youth were allowed to go to Mannar town with an army escort, who took them in a bus and brought them back. That has been stopped after one youth taken to town escaped.
Due to a water shortage in the area, the inmates of the camp need to go outside to bathe. Anyone going to bathe must find someone to stand surety. The inadequacy of government-funds for the centre has meant that many of the inmates, who belong to about 243 families, live in tents. With the onset of rains their situation becomes horrible.
One aspect confirming the prison status of these camps is that families are not allowed to seek shelter with host families - hitherto a common arrangement for the displaced in this country. We also learnt that displaced persons who had made arrangements to go abroad before they were displaced - such as young women whose fianc‚s are waiting to receive them into marriage - are not allowed to pursue such legitimate ends. University students have after some delay been allowed out.
The government as usual expects foreign governments and INGOs to pick up the bill for the misery it causes. So far INGOs have avoided getting involved in what is in effect illegal confinement of citizens of the same country not charged with any offence. It is something they would find hard to justify. The government is evidently satisfied with this pilot project and is planning to have one in Vavuniya on a huge scale for civilians presently living under LTTE-control it expects to 'free.'
What is worse, Vavuniya has become a place of crime and lawlessness, where torture, murder, extortion, abduction and rape are routine. Women are powerless. The blame for their plight largely owes to the security forces and Tamil paramilitary groups working with them.
Once confronted with the misery of these inadequately financed detention centres with children, mothers and infants whose basic needs are not met, the INGOs would face a severe dilemma whether to go in and, in effect, sanction this arrangement, or to turn a blind eye to gigantic misery. "
The reason I'm posting the above is to draw your attention to the way we treat these people who come from the vanni. Now I know that some people will argue that they are being illegally detained. The discussion is not about whether they should be allowed to go. Rather, the discussion is about how we treat them while they are there!
Now most of these people have experienced the treatment by the ltte. So, their treatment by the govt must be better than the way that the ltte treated them.
In Germany, after the first world war, there was much resentment about the way the allies treated the Germans and the peace accord that was signed. The result was that there was a bigger world war within the next 25 years.
So we need to take steps to avoid it. We must not try to humiliate them or punish them.
In Jaffna, after the 1996 Rivirasa operations, people returned to their homes to find that some of them had actually been repaired. The security forces that welcomed them back were much nicer to them than they imagined. We know today that the Jaffna youth are not clamoring to join the ltte.
Therefore, to ensure that the victory that will be won by the SLDF is long lasting, we need to win the psychological battle. Winning the hearts and minds of these people who are in these camps will ensure the victory will be for good!
They need to be treated in such a way that they will cheer for Sri Lanka when we go out to bat :)
army.lk tlaks about fighting in KONTHAKARANKULAM, AKKARAYANKULAM, KOVIL POINT
anyone has a map that shows these places - akkarayankulam we know but the others
The Murder of Vavunathivu MO and the blatant hypocrisy of HR activists in Sri Lanka
read this article
Its time for us to use some chemicals on terra pests in M, K areas.
Thamileezam news,
Prabakaran and his family seeking international refugee
Army.lk reports that we are closing in on Kokkavil town centre.
http://tinyurl.com/6q6k3e
There are no Tamil "political prisoners", there are however LTTE prisoners.
Diass-pora take heed:
"SL Consulate General in Toronto Bandula Jayasekara alleged that LTTE moguls in Canada secretly met at the Sri Ganapathy Kovil in Toronto few days ago and discussed how to invest the money they looted from Tamils in Canada. He added that one mogul has said that if the Sri Lankan government destroys the LTTE, the money collected in Canada would become theirs. A well informed source told that the recently exposed pizza business is one such investment, Bandula said."
Enjoy!!!
Jaffna Celebrates Pooneryn Victory:
http://www.sinhala.net/
san,:
"...Thamileezam news,
Prabakaran and his family seeking international refugee..."
Very soon the great peelam war V will pitch vezapillai and his looneys against their own tamils from mulativu!!!
vezapillai will have vanished by then... Wonderful, courageous leadership, by him eh????
Corey,
They welcome to take him and his wife.
Sooner they go much better for all.
mahen,
aney ai patiyo oyata ochchara tharaha yanne?
b#1,
Sorry mate, I couldn't remember clearly last night.
The place I was residing is "GONA KOVILA" Junction.
If you are coming from Dehiwala side in galle road this junction is inbetween Sir John Kothalawala defence academy and De Zoysa flats.
Take the sea side road and go about 100m, you will see CEB depot and next to that engineer's quarters. That where exactly I was residing during 1983 riots.
test
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