Mysterious LTTE posters have appeared inside several IDP camps threatening the inhabitants and the Sri Lanka government.
The posters, mainly hand-written on pieces of paper contain the following messages:
"Our National Leader (Thalaivar) is not dead. How can anyone kill him? He is invincible. The Army is lying. Anyone collaborating with the Army will be severely dealt with. The Eelam struggle still continues under our leader."
A careful investigation of the source and origin of these poster messages indicates a huge blunder in the administration of the IDP camps. In some cases, inmates under observation as LTTE suspects have even escaped the camps.
In addition to the civil administration in place at these camps, an Intelligence and Counter-Insurgency/Terrorism function was assigned to the camps due to heavy infiltrations by LTTE cadres.
In doing so, the various IDP camps in Vavuniya, Jaffna and Mannar were divided-up among the various intelligence agencies.
These agencies included the Directorate of Military Intelligence (DMI), The Terrorists Investigations Department, the Criminal Investigations Department (CID), the police Special Branch etc.
Based on our observations it was evident that the posters were coming up at Non-DMI administered IDP camps. Many outstanding Intelligence Officers we spoke to were somewhat alarmed at the proposition of smoking-out remaining terrorists when so many agencies are in charge.
Tuesday, June 30, 2009
LTTE posters inside IDP camps
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Ananda,
You said:
[I plan to analyze this document in excruciating detail.]
I am extremely happy and grateful to you for undertaking the above task of great importance, which I would have liked to do myself. But unfortunately I don't have the required mind set or the patience to do it.
In particular, I think we need to concentrate on the following:
1) Law and Order
2) Land settlement
3) Inter provincial border security arrangements
4) Environmental affairs of Inter provincial nature.
5) Camps and activities of the national Armed Forces.
6) Freedom of movement and residence.
These are only a few I could think of but there may be many more.
We should try to get the full document.
HINDU-MOSLEM Communal Violence in Mysore, India
Fresh attack in Mysore, 2 injured
Rapid Action Force personnel and local policemen patrol a street a day after communal clash in Mysore on Friday.
ExpressBuzz.com
July 04, 2009
MYSORE: In a fresh bout of violence, two more persons received serious stab wounds as the communal tension which gripped parts of the city showed no sign of let up for the second consecutive day today.
Giridhar, a BJP activist, and his friend Wajid were stabbed with sharp weapons by a two-member gang riding a motorcycle at Pulikeshinagar area this evening, police said.
The two were chatting in front of their house when they were attacked, police said, adding that the accused were yet to be identified. Javed, brother of Wajid, immediately rushed both to a hospital, police said. With this, five persons have been stabbed since last night and three were killed in violence, which erupted over an alleged incident of desecration of a madrasa yesterday.
Even as police rushed reinforcements to the area to prevent violence from spreading, three men were stabbed by a three-member gang last night and are being treated in a hospital.
Two battalions of RAF deployed in the troubled areas staged a flag march today to instil confidence among fear-stricken residents. The attack has baffled the police over the motive of the attackers.
mithra,
"A large scale migration of other communities towards North should be organised as a matter of highest priority to bring social harmony and peace to Sri Lanka."
govt sponsored, LARGE scale, FAST.
we must do it ASAP.
that IS the political solution.
Ananda,
sorry about that. i will send it to you.
i think i don't know how to copy a document to blogger WITH formatting in tact.
any help is much appreciated. anyone??
i NEVER thought douglas d would do such a thing!
looks like he is also the same as the others. only good thing is he is a bit slow in demands. but still much better than ananda sakkili (ASS) who wants federal crap.
the plan is clear. step by step. bit by bit to TAMIL ELAM SAKKILI SHIT!
the end justifies the means.
generally the ones who do hard work have to go MORE. looks to me that SF/GR will have to have an "arrangement" for MR/BR. blood is thicker than water but SL is more important than BOTH!
IF MR wants to devolve powers it is OK but colonize the north FIRST with multi ethnic colonies. then do WHATEVER.
don't put the cart b4 the ASS.
panhinda,
mate, we are not afraid of any tamil. what we fear is ARROGANCE, STUPIDITY & INSANITY.
tamils MUST live in SL and prosper. for that they should be given NOTHING MORE and NOTHING LESS than equal rights to each person.
NOT to the tamil community. then that bcomes ponna-ambalam's 50-50 which was rejected even by the brits!!!!
hemantha,
no problem.
but there is a little bit relevance. those who ACTUALLY helped the lower turnout in the 2 districts are BOTH with MR.
BOTH want MORE powers (within a "unitary" state)!! they helped the war but now war is over and back to politics.
the way to do it with least effort is 13. once again personal requirements b4 national needs.
the other camp is WORSE. they call for federalism.
unfortunately no mainstream effort for what is right.
THE DEFENCE DIMENSION OF DEVOLUTION
by
Dayan Jayatileke
[One argument against 13th amendment is that it is a stepping stone to the Tamil separatist cause.
If so Prabhakaran would have accepted it and not gone to war against IPKF, ....... in the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi, an atrocious crime for which he paid this May. }
Hemantha dealt with this comprehensively. All I have to say is, DJ assumes here that VP is an astute and infallible politician (perhaps something that he likes to believe), which obviously he is not. He made so many political blunders. In fact he made many military blunders too. Having painted himself in to a corner saying that he should be killed if he accepted anything less than Eelam I dont see how how he could have accepted anything else even on an interim basis.
DJ ‘s attempts to use VP’s response as a litmus test on how good or bad something is for SL only exposes the bankruptcy of his arguments.
Also by suggesting is VP is infallibel and then saying that in killing Rajiv he made a big blunder, DJ contradicts himself in the same sentence.
Just as an aside, in my opinion, killing Rajiv was one of the best things VP did, something that I would have rewarded him for if I could. (No apologies for sounding ghoulish).
He showed the Indians that it is dangerous to assume that Sri Lankans can be pushed around. The lesson here is, if LTTE could stand up to the Indians for what they believed in, why not other Sri Lankans?
[This is because authentic moderate reform is a death trap for extremism anywhere, anytime.]
Again this justifies the unwavering despotic course of action of VP. He wanted to avoid a death trap!! (i.e.) It was all in self defense.
[The non-implementation of the 13th amendment will open up a gap....between SL and India]
DJ perhaps realized that the earlier naked fear tactics were too obvious and tries more subtle methods this time around. The whole approach is wrong. DJ should first try to prove that his proposal is good for SL instead of trying to show that not implementing it is not good.
[Open up the issue again and the Sinhalese may offer less, the Tamils may ask for more and the world may see an even more divided island. ]
Those who do not adapt to the socio-political situation sre doomed to become extinct. No solution can be considered time invariant. For example the Mutually assured Destrction (MAD) strategy follwed by the US changed to Preemptive War after the demise of the Soviet Empire.
The rest of the blah blah I will leave for later but I have to say one thing about DJ's atttitude....
DJ thinks his Paramasacca is not only Akalika but Paccatam Veti Tabbo Vinnuhiti - To be understood only by those who have Panna (Wisdom).
Thus the opinions of Bandas, Silindus, Jamis's, Velus and Nanas are conveniently left out.
sam,
of course.
WITHIN an understanding that EVERYONE has the same right EVERYWHERE.
IF thesawalamei PAMPERED THEM for FAR TOO LONG, just fcuk-off.
we MUST make it VERY clear BEFORE anything. resposibilities (towards others) first, THEN rights.
if you can't discharge your responsibilities towards others you DON'T deserve rights.
GROUP RIGHTS (A PANDORA'S BOX)
It is my opinion that considering people as groups for granting equal rights is a Pandora's box that should never be opened.
So far see only Sinhalese, Tamils and Muslims as groups of significance.
But there are so many sub groups within these groups..Kandyan, Low country, high caste, low caste, Buddhsits, Christians, Anandians, Royalists, Thomians and so on ad infinitum.
Each individual will see any short coming in the sharing as a grievance of some group or sub group he/she belongs to.
For exapmle, let us say there is some diffrence between a Buddhist Sinhala and a Christian Sinhala. Sincethe discrimination cannot be blmed on the ethnicity in this case, the aggreived person will immediately hook on to religion, the next percetible division. That is human nature.
That is why we will never solve the problem through group rights.
sara,
a good example.
what today's ponna-ambalam's want is equal halves to sinhalas and tamils.
then THEY are going to use CASTE, REGION, ORIGIN etc. to divide that among the "tamil" individuals.
patriots,
i have given you an update of the fate of toiletnet.
there is more.
nowadays more than 40% of toiletnet viewers come from INDIA!!!
this is VERY VERY interesting. tamil madu seems to be relying on TN for SL affairs and still not given up.
Moshe,
Copy text to Notepad first..that preserves the spacings and upper and lower case fonts, but not bold, italics or font size.
Then, copy from Notepad to the blog. That will maintain readability, by preserving the essential spacing between sections. :)
thanks Ananda.
in other developments, israel is making a last ditch attempt to force russia not to sell s-300 to iran. iran has already paid part but russia has not dilivered any YET.
IF russia goes ahead with the delivery israel will MOST LIKELY attack iran BEFORE the s-300 is operational.
it may be months. but a flare up is likely.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=108915355030
all those who are agaisnt the power devolution join our facebook group and help us take forward our propaganda..Against power devolution
INDIVIDUAL VS GROUP RIGHTS
[ Moshe Dyan said...
panhinda,
tamils MUST live in SL and prosper. for that they should be given NOTHING MORE and NOTHING LESS than equal rights to each person.
NOT to the tamil community. then that bcomes ponna-ambalam's 50-50 which was rejected even by the brits!!!!]
WELL SAID mOSHE.
Let us take the hypothetical case of dividing a cake amongst all SLankans on a fair manner. How will you divide it.
If individuals are sacrosanct each will get 1/20 millionth part of the cake irrespective of ethnicity, relgion etc.
But if you go by Main Groups, then there being 5 groups, Sinhalese, Tamils, Muslims, Malays and Burghers, each group will get 1/5the of the cake.
Which is more fair?
(This is a second posting to correct a mistake)
did anybody hear know all these facts they talk of tamil grievances since independance what abt the injustices done to other ethnic groups by tamil exteemsits
Campaign by GG Ponambalam to subjugulate Sinhalese by robbing representation (1940s)
GG Ponambalam demanded that 50% of the seats be reserved for the minorities in the country which added up to less than 30%.and the other 50% of seats to be decided by an election.if this system was activated 65% of seats will go to the minorities who make up 30% and 35% of seats will go to the majority which made up about 70% of the population at that time.This is a clear plan to subjugulate the Sinhalese majority by Tamil extremist politicians like GG ponambalam
Ethnic Cleansing of Jaffna by Tamil exteemists (1971-1981)
Between 1971 and 1981 the Tamil exteemists terrorized and kicked out 27,000 Sinhalese from the Jaffna peninsula where they had been living for generations.
Ethnic Cleansing of Batticloa by Tamil Extremists (1957)
Sinhalese people were ethnically cleansed from Batticloa by Tamil extremists in 1957
the 1953 census for Batticloa gives 12% of population in Batticloa as Sinhalese
but 1963 census which was taken after these attacks gives a 3.5% of population of Batticloa as Sinhalese
The Attack on Sinhalese students and lecturers at the University of Jaffna(1977)
in 1977 Tamil extremists stoned and drove out 400 Sinhalese undergraduates and lecturers from the Jaffna university some of the Sinhalese who were a victim of this attack were handicapped for life.. thus making it a pure-Tamil University, while all other universities in the South were multi-ethnic campuses including an open door policy to register Tamil students
Cultural Genocide by Tamil Extremists (1950s onwards)
The Destruction of 100s of Sinhala Cultural Heritage sites by Extremists in the Northern Province and also in the Eastern province with the sole aim of erasing the evidences of Sinhala civilization in the north and east and in most places after destroying the Buddhist temples they have built Hindu Kovils on top of them
Educational Genocide by Tamil extremists(1960s-1970s)
Tamil Communalist teachers gave bogus very high marks for the Tamil students during the paper marking for A/L exam So that Tamils will enter the universities in large numbers.as we know that university seats are limited such an act made other students from the Sinhala and Muslim community not able to enter university even if they were better students.This was indeed an educational genocide on the Sinhalese and Muslim communities
Ethnic Cleansing of the Vavuniya district(1984)
Tamil separatist terrorists shot dead 73 Sinhalese people in villages in vavuniya in order to create a fear psychosis and make the Sinhalese population leave the area (vavuniya district)therefore at least 6,000 Sinhala refugees have resulted from Vauniya
Ethnic Cleansing of Sinhalese in the Trincomalee District(1984 onwards)
GROUP DYNAMICS
SOCIAL GROUP(From Wikipedia):
Individuals in groups are connected to each other by social relationships.
A group can be defined as two or more humans that interact with one another, accept expectations and obligations as members of the group, and share a common identity.
A true group exhibits some degree of SOCIAL COHESION and is more than a simple collection or aggregate of individuals, such as people waiting at a bus stop.
Characteristics shared by members
of a group may include interests, values, ETHNIC or social background, and kinship ties.
SOCIAL COHESION
Social cohesion is a term used in social policy, sociology and political science to describe the bonds or "glue" that bring people together in society, particularly in the context of cultural diversity. It is sometimes used as a euphemism for the state of race relations.
Social cohesion has become an important theme...since problems arose in Britain's Northern milltowns (Oldham, Bradford and Burnley) in the summer of 2001..
There are five different dimensions of social cohesion: material conditions, passive relationships, active relationships, inclusion and equality.
• Material conditions: Fundamental to social cohesion, particularly employment, income, health, education and housing.
• Social order: Safety and freedom from fear. Tolerance and respect for other people is hallmarks of a stable and harmonious urban society.
• Positive interactions:Exchanges and networks between individuals and communities, or "active social relationships".
• Social inclusion: Extent of or integration of people into the mainstream institutions of civil society.
• Social equality: Level of fairness or disparity in access to opportunities or material circumstances, such as income, health or quality of life, or in future life chances.
SOCIAL COHESION
My comments.
Having separate eclaves, homelands, ghettos etc. are conspicuously absent from the components of the 'GLUE' mentioned above.
In fact social integration rather differentiation is the theme to follow.
Susantha,
How accurate is your G.G. Ponnambalam's 50-50 demand. I was under the impression that 50% of seats were reserved for Sinhalese and the other 50% was to be reserved for minorities. Either way, this demand was absolute mockery of democracy and unreasonable as any other Eelamist demand. Please make sure that your statements are accurate.
sam perera...this was according to prof nalin de silva.....(he said that it was 50% to be reserved for minorities and 50% to be decided by election
HERD MENTALITY IN GROUP DYNAMICS
Excessive geographical differentiation of social groups can lead to two groups developing widely different mentalities. It also allows the peers to manipulate the group to their own liking.
It wa sherd mentality of certain groups in the South that led to the 1956 and 1983 riots. The peers, which included the then govt actively promoted this unhealthy and highly destructive mentality to further their own interests.
It was almost total total geographical isolation that helped the herd mentality to develop among the TAmils in unliberated areas and allowed the LTTE leaders to manipulate them like zombies.
There are no limits to the mental aberrations that can occur under isolation.
Geographical isolation is the most dangerous element that destroys social integration.
SOCIAL INTEGRATION
One may argue that the influence of geographical isolation has diminished due to modern communication technology including Internet and therefore, geographical isolation should not have such ill effects.
To that my answer is that there is nothing that can replace frequent personal contact. Man may have invented cyber technology. But the effects of millions of years of evolution cannot be replaced by a few decades of IT.
Evolutionarily, Man is basically still a wild animal. we have come out of the jungle but our instincts are still jungle based.
The best example of this is the way that the Tamil diaspora has differentiated itself from reality (of course the erality as I see it) mainly due to Internet. In gact IT has exacerbated differentiation rather than alleviating it.
Why do people spend 1000s of dollars and go home to see their relatives every year? It is because nothing can replace direct social contact. The e-mail, chat or web camera will nver repace a hug.
கருà®®்புலிகள்
பகைவருக்குள் வாà®´்ந்து, அவர்கள் உயிà®°் சாய்த்து, உயிà®°் எறிந்த உறவாய், à®®ுகம் மறைத்த புலியாய், உணர்வுகள் புதிà®°ாய், வாà®´ாது வாà®´்கின்à®± இவர்களை நினைவு கூà®°ுவோà®®்.
Oh, dear God
anna ara mugda peter awilla!
Before we start a large scale migration one must weigh in the consequences and we must use other acceptable ways and a determined long term methods which will be gradual but sure that will be accepted as a norm by other future political regimes.
To start with we could settle the displaced Muslims and Sinhalese and give easy payment plan for building houses for civil servants that could be transferred from the South and for those families that would be part of the defence establishment that may be there for the next decade or two. There may be further inroads in to that communal minded society by way of intermarriage as a pensionable and govt salary earning young person would be a prospective bride/bridegroom that may dwell in their vicnity.After all Nadesan was married to a Sinhalese woman and if that was repeated by many thousands then this narrow and communal minded Jaffna Tamil would have accommodated the majority better. They were right down hostile to us when we were there in early sixties.
With respect Douglas D, he should be firmly informed of his demands that should be in line with a unitary state and that will not suspect it to be of a sinister in nature.
susatha,
welcome to DW!
very good points there. i PARTICULARLY like this one which MOST ppl DO NOT KNOW.
"Conclusively, after 1977, 78, 81, 83, and 84, due to around 128 Tamil racist attacks, around 100,000 Sinhala villagers have become refugees and around 3,500 killed."
some IDIOTS think these were the EXCLUSIVE work of the LTTE. WRONG!!
these were carried out by LTTE + non-LTTE/non-armed group tamil elamists who are considered 'PEACEFUL' tamil elamists.
PROOF #1
look at the WAY they killed the villagers. LTTE could have EASILY used ak-47s. job will be done in a few minutes. but these barbarians (few LTTE cadres along with MANY non-LTTE/non-armed group tamil elamists) used axes, swords, etc. to kill ppl.
this is ENOUGH PROOF that NOT ALL those who did those barbaric acts were LTTE.
this, therefore, was DOUBLE terror for ppl.
PROOF #2
ONLY when SLDFs used APPROPRIATE retaliatory attacks on the killers and their kith & kin, did these attacks stop!!
plenty of examples which need not be discussed here.
this is the obstacle we must overcome even after the LTTE is annihilated.
that is why we should colonise the north & east with MULTIETHNIC colonies ASAP backed by a LARGE military presence. it serves EVERYONE.
re: douglas d
he was never a separatist. he fought alongside us even b4 EPDP came to the democratic mainstream.
but now he cannot use certain methods (e.g. kytes method) to win elections. he MUST be appealing to the MAJORITY of (tamil only) ppl in jaffna/vavuniya.
that is why he is NOW adopting separatism.
this is NOT the fault of northern tamil ppl. they are innocent. but they were MISLED for 80 years by tamil elam politicians.
take a look at ALL the major political parties that won in the north east from 1947 onwards. go by the number of votes.
ALL the time it was tamil elamists that won including gg-p whose party joined the UNP BUT we know what a racist he was from his 50-50 demand.
douglas d is INCAPABLE of changing this wave. so he goes with it for his survival. he cannot change this 80 year wave. no one can (unless multiethnic colonisation happens).
we did it in parts of the east and surprise surprise!!! separatist politicians don't win in those areas!!!
same must be done in the north. separatism will die a natural death. no need of violence.
M.D
‘that is why we should colonise the north & east with MULTIETHNIC colonies ASAP backed by a LARGE military presence. it serves EVERYONE’
We are all in favour of this but in reality SL being a poor country, unlike Israel will be victimized by the do-gooders and HR lobby resulting in SL being classified as a pariah state.Isreal is going on with a aggressive colonization policy due their powerful lobby in the West and their system of government and their modern outlook in spite of their minority religious orthodox faction is striking a chord with the powerful Western world. West looks at the unfortunate Palestinians as losers who are forever living in a chaotic state which is not so attractive to the economies and politics of the West .Even if Israel is at fault the west will not sacrifice Israel to the unruly lot that surround her.
We should make the same cry and plea that we a small nation of 19 million is trying to survive the hegemonic intentions of the mighty neighbour the TN.
Let me be a contrarian here . In the defense of Dayan . If the provincial council's can be formed initially without police and land rights and incorporated with a strong ethnic integration program I think we can keep India happy as well as achieve a level on integration . The Central govt should be in a position to take over any PC that does not toe its line . A huge military presence is also going to be a necessary aspect of this plan .
I saw this in another discussion today . this is historical fact . the reason for WW2 was the excessive control put in place by the allies at the time over germany . treating the vanquished with dignity is essential . We cannot afford to be going into cycles of war every 20 - 30 years . So it is best to pursue a realistic integration scheme with a workable devolution scheme . Dayan is being a diplomat , he knows without Indian help this problem will not go away .
kevin,
mate the two are completely different.
israel is colonising palestinian territory.
SL is only intersted in SL territory. IF (IF) SL goes on to follow israel, it should colonize TN.
ali,
that compromise can NEVER happen bcos the two are contradictory.
13 is about giving a little to those who want DISINTEGRATION whereas ethnic integration is the EXACT opposite.
if ethnic integration happens with the 13, even those who COMPROMISED from a seperate nation will get disappointed. and that means the 13 fails to adress their demands.
i'm not telling we should "GIVE" their demands. what i'm saying is "ADRESS" their demands by actually FRUATRATING them.
for that we don't need 13!!
actually 13 is an OBSTRUCTION for ethnic integration especially with land and police powers to provinces.
DJ is only trying to please MR. (or is it the other way round????)
MR follows a "PLEASE OUR FRIENDLY NATIONS" strategy. palestine, india, cuba, are top in this list. due to this other friends get offended.
e.g. israel, china, pakistan
instead MR should follow a "SRI LANKA CENTRED APPROACH"
IF they are TRUE friends, they will LOVE it. if they only superficial friends on shaky ground who jump from LTTE to SL camp when convinient, then it is best not to treat them as "friends".
india cannot afford to lose SL no matter what we do.
IF that happens india becomes the common enemy in the region. already pakistan, bangla, nepal, china, burma, etc. have an anti-indian stance. SL is the ONLY exception in the region!!!!
india MUST consider SL as an equal partner, not the daughter of mother india.
a fcuking fantastic example is NEPAL.
india did EVERYTHING to keep the nepal king + HINDU KINGDOM in power. but ppl and the "maoist" guerillas had other plans.
whatever it is, nepal became a democracy and dethroned the king totally against indian interests.
the dawn of democracy was VERY good on nepal (even though there is a chinese "bad" involvement).
the same thing goes for SL. IF we want to do the right thing by SL, we LIKE NEPAL must disregard india's petty concerns.
Moshe
Dayan is pressing MR's Agenda . it will be implemented no matter what . It wont matter what JHU/JVP or anybody else says . You know how popular MR is now .
Ethnic integration can be pursued while devolving power . The federal govt will always have overriding power in matter such as these .
I know full well that this is not going to be a popular view . The way I see it MR is right as he was with the war . It just has to be implemented right .
sam, susantha,
nalin de silva is wrong then.
the 50-50 comes from the ALREALY EXISTED racial representation thing.
e.g. 1924 SLC had equal number of reps from S, T, M.
gg-p tries to keep it that way between S & T (he included M into T).
obviously that is not democratic.
ali,
MR is going to land in trouble this time.
in war he followed the popular view. bcos of that ppl agreed to put up with coffins coming home from north, bomb blasts, MASSIVE defence budget, even a bloody corrupt MASSIVE cabinet, etc.!!
if MR goes against the popular view, he will not have this support. that means an even WORSE case for 13 than we imagine.
also 13 requires MORE tax collection (to do all that) obviously from the ppl. this will be a disaster.
MR's popularity is bcos he FOLLOWED what is popular. not the other way round!!! popularity NEVER followed him!!! (chandrika - yes)
the moment he follows the unpopular, his popularity will drop.
unfortunately the JVP and JHU that got politically wiped out will come back now. along with them regular strikes, university violence, etc. will also come.
that will be the reversal of MR's victories.
ethnic integration is IMPOSSIBLE with the 13. IF ET happens well, who will vote for EPDP, TULF, TNA, TMVP, ACTC, ITAK?????
political parties that will rule north will not tolerate that. already pillayan has complained about "sinhala colonisation" in the east.
G'day patriots,
Good to see Moshe, Ananda and Sam still keeping the flame alive..
Lot has been said about the 13th amendment..But MR seems (under duress?!) to be determined to implement it whether we like it or not...The only thing NFF and JHU can do is go to the supreme court, but I do not know what the views of the judiciary is like post Sarath N Silva(who said full-scale devolution is impractical in a small country)..
popular view - following the war option , well may be but he barely had a simple majority . and you are right that chandrika was prolly more popular in comparison .
But do not underestimate the popularity has has gained by finishing the war . the JVP JHU monkeys can dance but with GR firmly at the defence helm they will be crushed mercilessly .
IMO MR knows the ground reality well . he will not do anything that will come back to haunt us .
I guess all we can do is wait and see . I just want this issue to be over so that Sri Lanka can move on to more important economic issues .
we have to TAME MR.
there is a way to do that. MR listens to top buddhist monks of the malwathu, asigiri, ramangnga.
if we can convince them of the danger of 13, we can get them to approach MR and convince him.
where are the monks who were fasting against CBK's package and PTOMS?????
MR even visited them!!! there is an election WITHIN the next 7 months!!!
There should be too main arguments against devolution the provinces in the present form..
1. The lack of provincial identity..Apart from maybe the Sothern and Uva provinces no person from any single province will identify himself as coming from such and such province...
Say if soemone asks an Indian where in India he/she is the person will say I come from Gujarat, Punjab etc. (state) rather than I am from Ahmedabad, Amritsar etc..(city/region)..But if you will ask a Sri Lankan (whatever race) where in Sri Lanka he is from he/she will say I am from Colombo, Mathara, Jaffna or Trinco (District) not I am from Western province, Sabaragamuva etc..
Therefore devolving to the districts is more practical and people friendly ..(Please correct me if I am mistaken on the following)...This was the basis of the Banda-Chelva pact..But Chelva had sepratism in mind when he wanted a clause that said two or more districts could band together if they so wanted..
Switzerland is a nice example of small devolutionary units..It has 20 odd samll cantons..They can band tgether but need the concurrence of all cantons to do so..Switzerland has three main languages but the cantons have no desire to band togetther based o nlanguage/ethnicity as they have evolved their own identitities...
This could be suitable for SL with modifications..With power devolved to the districts sepratism becomes infecctive..The unit of devolution is too small and therfore independence is not viable..All the districts will be bound by a strong central government..Plus the district will give other cultural groups a larger voice..Ampara could have a Muslim majority and Mannar a christain majority..Plus the low-caste tamils in Kili and Vavuniya do not have to be subject to dominance of the upper class Jaffna people..Same goes with people from Gampaha, Kaluthara, Nuwareliya etc..(who cannot be domianted by Colombo and Kandy)..
ali,
mate, crushing UNARMED uprising is a thing of the past. sirima & premadasa could do it then, but it not possible now.
premadasa narrowly escaped. if he had to do it 2 years later, then we would be in for real shit.
our economy depends of human rights to the general population ESPECIALLY workers. note that workers are VERY VERY vulnerable to JVP!!!
"Sri Lanka can move on to more important economic issues"
100% true.
this is my point. why on earth do we have to struggle with this IRRELEVANT 13????
DJ sites india's support against war crimes alligations. this support will not be there if india is not happy with us not implementing 13.
so what???
we have not committed war crimes.
IF (IF) MR, GR, SF DID commit war crimes, they should be punished.
so either way it does not matter.
this is extortion DJ is atalking about.
Patriots,
I wish that others think like this too.
Muslims don’t need separate politics - Hisbullah
Indeed, Muslims sacrificed a lot for the defence of Mother Lanka. They are part of the majority, i.e. patriots. Need not to mention the names of great soldiers Col. Fazly Lafir and Lt. Col. Thuan Muthalif. One country with equal rights and responsibilities.
May Almighty Bless Great Sons of Mother Lanka like Hisbulla
2. The current division of provinces gives certain provinces an undue advantage resource wise....
If substantial economic power is devolved, the people of Sabargamuwa, Uva and North Central will be hard done by..The North, East, South, West and North West will have aceess to the oceans and the Central province will control a bulk of the water resoures (as all the main rivers flow from the hills)
Therefore any devolution on the provincioal level must be preceded by restructuring the provinces to ensure economic equity..I cant remeber all the specifics but I think a Professor in the early 1990s suggested a model on economic equity based on river basins (was it Prof Maddumabandara?!)..
The 8 provinces were
a. Mahaveli (Matale, Parts of Polonnaruwa and Kandy, and Trinocmalee)..
b. Rajarata (all the tank based agrarian areas)- Anuradapura, parts of Polonnaruwa, Vavuniya and Mannar)
c. Dighavapi (Moanargala, Badulla, Ampara and Batticaloa)
d. Ruhuna (essentaily the Southern provicne)
e. Kaluthara (Kaluthara, Kegalle and Rathanpura)
f. Kelaniweli (Colombo, Gampaha, parts of Kurunegala and Puththalama)
g. Yaapana/ Uththara (Jaffna, Kili and Mulla)
h. Madyama- Kandy, Nuwareliya and parts of Kurunegala (slightly reduced in territory)..This national capital will be moved to this territory which controls all the water resorce..A capital in the hills will also aid in defence matters
This is a softer approach than multiethnic colonisation which will be spun badly by the diaspora, the west and India..It will diminish the eelam dream..
a. uththara will be the only tamil majority province but not viable for independence (size and economics)..
b. The rajarata will have a nice balance of Sinalese, Tamils and Muslims..ethnic integration by settlement within the province will ensure it will act as a bulwark agaisnt sepratism..
d. The Multiethnic Trincomalee will be part of Maheweli province and will separate Uththara from the Tamil Batticaloa district..The mahaveli province will have a balance of Sinhalese, Tamils and (both Sinhala and Tamil speaking) Muslims..
e. The Dighavapi provincee will also have nice balance of Sinhales, Tamils and Muslims..Ethnic integration via movememnt within the province could be achieved herre too..
f. The capital in Kandy will be roughly at a equal distance fro m all provinces..hence no one can complain that they are bieng controlled by people faraway from them (i.e..Like the bogus Jaffna complaint about Colombo rule)
Diyasena,
It is a great idea. I agree that we need to step back and rethink the whole plan including the current political divisions. There is one thing I am little bit intrigued about, that is the proposal to move the capital to Madyama province since you mentioned about defensive purposes. Any thoughts on the proposed location for the capitol.
diyasena, sam,
i read somewhere a proposal to create 3 units. each having representative number of S, T, M.
then there is no EFFORTED need for the physical element of ethnic integration. of course ppl will voluntarily go here and there and that is fine.
sam,
seems to be a good guy. he was a former senior minister i think.
Sam,
The original document by the professor (which I read many years ago and dont remember fully) wanted the capital in anuradhapura..But I feel the terrain in Anuradhapura is difficult to defend against a full scale ground inavasion (as proved throughout histroy)..
Senkadagala will be difficult to take by a large ground force and enables the defender to use Guerilla tactics and bleed the enemy (Our history and recent wars like Tora Bora, Chechnya and Swat Valley are examples.)..Of course an enemy can cutoff us from coastal access and try to starve us into submission..But as they struggle to take the hill capital we can play the genocide card the peelamists played so well..
A capital in the hills can be a good defense agaisnt 'shock and awe' type aerial bombardment..Many of the emergency bunkers, important command centers and facilities (for leaders in USA, Russia, China) are made inside mountains with concrete reinforcements..Some of our hills already have tunnel systems built duirng ancinet times (I think Yapahuwa was one of them)..
We could also place our future strategic assets (this is assuming we get them) in the hills too..Heavily forested hills will proivde the opportunity for camoflouging weapons factories and stores from the prying eyes of sattelites (The Russians do this very well for their ICBMs..
Plus as the hills are at equal distance from all provinces..It gives us the opportunity of launching counter-attacks on multiple fronts (even if the fourth largest standing army comes in all its entireity ;) it will have several weak points)
Tamil rebel kills soldier in eastern Sri Lanka
South Asia News
Jul 5, 2009, 8:32 GMT
Colombo - A lone Tamil rebel killed one soldier in eastern Sri Lanka and injured two others in a shootout marking the first military casualties after the guerilla leadership was crushed six weeks ago, a military spokesman said Sunday.
The incident took place in Kirankulam, Batticaloa, 300 kilometres east of the capital when soldiers attempted to ambush a rebel riding a canoe in a lagoon on Saturday.
The rebel grabbed the weapon of a soldier and opened fire killing one and injuring two others. In return fire the rebel was injured and arrested.
The government on May 18 declared that the rebel army had been wiped out and its leadership destroyed, but a few guerrillas still remain in the eastern province.
Some 11,000 rebels surrendered to government forces while about 270,000 civilians displaced in fighting are living in refugee camps in northern Sri Lanka, before being allowed to resettle in their villages.
Moshe Dyan said...
whatever it is, nepal became a democracy and dethroned the king totally against indian interests.
Moshe,
You have got this story the wrong way round. Rajiv Gandhi blockaded Nepal, a landlocked country with no sea ports and with land access mostly through India. This was around the same time that Rajiv Gandhi was contemplating sending troops towards Sri Lanka. The reasons were supposedly that Nepal was buying arms from China. The closing of borrder crosssings severely disrupted the Nepal economy and undermined the monarchy of King Birendra, who was quite a popular monarch at that time.
The Maoist movement in Nepal is a creation of India. The leader of the Maoist movement, Prachanda, studied in India and is probably a product of the RAW. India considers Nepal and extension of India. Many Nepalis study and work in India as there are no visa requirements. The only reason that the British did not put Nepal under the India state, as they did with other princely states,
was because the British wanted access to Gurkha soldiers for the British army.
The fact that King Gayanendra was crazy probably hastened the downfall of the monarachy. Several years ago the king sacrificed over 1000 animals at a famous tantric temple called Kamakaya in N-E India, which earned him the wrath of animal rights activits in India.
The irony of Nepal is that India, US and UK supported the Maoist movement, and China supported the monarchy. The dismissal of the Maoist Government (less than a month ago) was also engineered by India. The Maoist PM tried to sack the head of the army and he also made utterences about stopping the trade in mercenery soldiers (about 300,000 Gurkha soldiers in the Indian army). This alarmed the Indians who organized a constitutional coup by getting the President to sack the PM.
moshe,
after many many years, sri lanka produced a leader worthy of a statesman.
during the course of the war he made a pledge to implement 13th as a political solution. now he must honor that pledge. its as simple as that.
be careful what you do and what you say because you may end up killing him.
MR & THE 13th
I just talked to a strong and blind supporter of MR who is close to what is going on. So much so, that one can predict what MR is going do, just by finding out what this man thinks should be done.
Now here is the crunch. This man believes that the 13th should be implemented in full. He is calling those who oppose it stupid and that their intention is to keep the Tamils as Sakkiliyas for ever.
I am convinced that MR is going to go through with it. That he is doing a dela vu act to fool India & other intersted parties is just wishful thinking on our part.
Also any oppostion to this will be mercilessly crushed.
[ Panhinda - பன்ஃகின்ட said...
moshe,
during the course of the war he made a pledge to implement 13th as a political solution. now he must honor that pledge. its as simple as that. ]
I am sorry, but I am unaware about such a pledge. Was it made to the people of Sri Lanka or to India?
What did his election manifesto prior to the Presidential Elections say about the 13th amendment?
MR's duty is first to the people who elected him and then to others.
INDIA urged to confront Maoist terrorism
Lessons from Lalgarh
Neerja Chowdhury
ExpressBuzz.com
July 04, 2009
Lalgarh is no longer just the name of a place in West Bengal where an operation is underway against the Maoists. It has come to signify the inroads the Maoists have made in half the states of the country, with the Lalgarh siege coming as a realisation that the problem could no longer be allowed to fester. It was no small thing for the prime minister to admit publicly that the challenge posed by the Maoists was ‘the single largest threat to the country’. The issue found a prominent place in the president’s address to the joint session of parliament earlier this month.
This is not to say that the government has not been aware of the problem. The Maoists — the CPI(Maoists) was formed in September 2004 through the merger of the People’s War Group and the Maoist Centre of India, subsequently rendering other groups irrelevant — intensified their activities in 2007.
Central intelligence agencies have suspected the Maoists’ links with other militant outfits like the LTTE, ULFA and Pakistan’s ISI. It was for the first time that the Naxals made their presence felt in the recent general elections with widespread violence seen in the first phase of polling.
In the past the government has spoken with different voices, with the home ministry downplaying the threat. Three years ago, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had talked about the presence of Naxalites in 160 districts. But a month later, Shivraj Patil told a different story, saying he had ‘personally’ collected data that they were present only in 50 districts. Again, speaking at the CMs’ conference, the home minister had revealed that only 506 police stations were affected in the country. This drew a sharp rebuttal from the Andhra Pradesh CM, who claimed that 500 police stations were affected in his state alone. A former governor of Chhattisgarh revealed — Chhattisgarh has been a Naxal afflicted state since 1980 — that the number of districts affected were ‘256’.
The real spread of the Maoists activity is still not fully known, though officials in the home ministry now say the Maoists are present in 160 districts and 36 of these are ‘intensively’ controlled. In other words, where the government’s writ does not run, where MPs cannot tour freely, where the district administration’s fiat is not effective and where police stations are not under the state government’s control — as happened in Lalgarh.
There is another cause for concern. The ‘red corridor’ in India goes right up to the Nepal border and the Maoists in Kathmandu are now out of power, and they have openly charged India for being behind their ouster. While Prachanda was in the saddle, he kept India in good humour. Now it is a different story with the Nepal Maoists openly cosying up to China, which has become quite proactive in India’s neighbourhood.
For Singh and his team, Lalgarh provided an opportunity to signal a no nonsense approach, though Chidambaram had initially urged a diffident Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee to use the police force. The Lalgarh siege is a cause and effect story — of deprivation, protest, repression and resistance by the tribals — but once the siege had taken place and people were being killed, and police not allowed to enter the area, an abdication by the state of its responsibility would have had serious consequences.
There are indications now that the government is thinking about mounting a national operation which goes beyond Lalgarh, and may encompass areas in Jharkhand, Orissa, Chhattisgarh and Maharashtra.
It is well known that the Maoists come into West Bengal from Jharkhand and when the trail gets hot, they slip back into Jharkhand. The government of Orissa — where Naxal activity has been stepped up and policemen were killed there on the eve of P Chidambaram’s visit there recently — has also sought the Centre’s help.
Maoist violence in India..continued..
The PM has sent a powerful 20 secretary team led by the cabinet secretary to Jharkhand to speed up the development activity there and it is high time this was done. For Jharkhand has had a model of government in recent years which should not be repeated anywhere else, where a group of half a dozen independents, propped up by Congress and others, were allowed to milk the state to serve the individual ends of senior UPA leaders. It is a tragic story of gross criminal neglect.
Small wonder then that there are 15 districts in this small state that are under Maoists’ control. Go out of Ranchi and the government’s diktat does not run in the district surrounding the capital city.
If the PM is serious about the development in Jharkhand, he will send the present set, including the governor, packing, and send to Ranchi a new team of fresh and dynamic administrators. Buddhadeb has claimed that the absence of development was not the sole factor for the rise of the Maoists. While there may be an element of truth in this, it is a shame that the tribals in his state should live in such pathetic conditions after 32 years of Left rule.
The West Bengal CM’s initial diffidence in handling the Maoists head-on with only the state police force stemmed from his experience in Nandigram and Singur. Action against the ultra Left also pushes the CPI(M) towards the ‘right’. Buddhadeb wanted to rope in the Centre and not give another opportunity to the opposition forces, the Congress and Trinamool Congress among them, to make common cause, with assembly elections in West Bengal not far away.
The Left would have also calculated that after the recent poll defeat, Lalgarh gave them an opportunity to regain their grip over the state. And that, cooperation with the Congress would also make Mamata jittery.
That is why the CPI(M) has been constantly praising the Centre and the Congress for the help they have given it. As for Mamata, she has charged the Left with stage-managing Lalgarh with the view to regaining lost ground. Many apprehend that the decision to act tough against the Maoists — the PM made the point that they were present in the mineral rich belts — is to help big industry and that is why trade organisations are suddenly speaking so much about the Maoist menace.
There is a flip side — and a worrying one — to the operation being considered by the home ministry. There are others in the government who are worried about the consequences of such a move. A military operation through the tribal belt of central India is bound to have its own repercussions, as the commitment of excesses would be implicit in the situation. It may also push the government into taking steps which would increasingly abridge the democratic rights of people, and provoke a reaction.
Clearly, while a law and order approach may be necessary, it is not enough. The situation calls for the creation of a national, all-party approach, and a development plan for the tribal areas that is implemented on an emergency footing.
casc,
"The irony of Nepal is that India,.... supported the Maoist movement, and China supported the monarchy."
mate, that is contrary to what i have read.
i was refring to the 2006 thing. not the 2008 elections.
interestingly the issue has come up AGAIN!!!
india AGAIN trying to bring back the monarchy
panhinda,
he made the pledge to india.
he said ANOTHER think to SL. the APRC was working "very hard" to find a political solution.
he also said he will find a "home grown" solution.
but i agree he is the best we had. i greatly fear that we might lose him SOON. but with all due respect to MR and you, HE HAS LOST IT!!!!
sara,
/*
I am sorry, but I am unaware about such a pledge. Was it made to the people of Sri Lanka or to India?
*/
google the words 'mahinda rajapakse pledge 13 amendment'.
not only PA but the opposition have agreed.
little knowledge can be like monkey with a razor blade. you should arm yourself with a basics before engaging in a discussion with grownups.
ian,
are you around??
what do you think of 13????
MR's election manifesto said, "maximum devolution within a unitary state".
so going by that he appointed the APRC which came up with MANY solutions. but none were adopted.
APRC even discussed the "grama raj" concept!!!!
Patriots,
Read my post on Maoist terrorism in India to gain some appreciation of the dangers of devolution of police and local security responsibilities to the Provinces.
In India, the underequipped and underfunded state police are unable to cope with the trrrorists who slip across interstate borders and escape easily. The police forces themselves do not have the authority to cross state boundaries. The federal government must either be invited by the state government, or come to an agreement to intervene, or as a last resort, must suspend the state government and place the state under federal rule before they can intervene.
Meanwhile, the multi-state Maoist guerillas are making hay and a mockery of the security apparatus seeking safe haven just across the state border. It is a veritable terrorist heaven.
Recall that the prime reason why LTTE terrorism persisted for so long in Sri Lanka was the unwillingness to DENY SAFE HAVENS to the LTTE within the country.
If police and security powers are devolved to the individual provinces in Sri Lanka, which will become little corrupt fiefdoms influnced by terrorist threats and terrist money, how will we maintain security within each PROVINCE and the NATION as a whole?
India is a large nation that may need distributed policing with its attendant defects, but why does little Sri Lanka need to adopt such an BUREAUCRATICALLY UNWEILDY, EASILY CORRUPTIBLE, COSTLY and ultimately UNWORKABLE jury rigged administrative system?
The ANSWER, my friends, is blowing in the wind: DON'T DO IT!
moshe,
/*
he made the pledge to india.
*/
that is correct. he made the pledge on behalf of lankans who made him leader. he also made the pledge obviously calculating all the risks involved.
it does not matter whom he gave the word. he has given it in the interests of people of lanka. if he does not keep the word, not only does he lose his credibility, sinhalese lose credibility too in the eyes of the global village which we are part of.
Dear Panhinda,
MR may have made the pledge but such pledge is not mandated by the people...The 'Mahinda Chinhtanya' which I voted for did not say anything about 13+ ... A solution forced down our throat using gunboat diplomacy is a far cry from the "Gauravanneya saamaya" mentioned in his chinthanaya..
Sam,
Susantha is absolutely correct. GG Ponnambalam and co. actually worded their demands in that manner. i.e. 50% reserved for minority and the other 50% to elected normally.
I may have an old document describing this (I'll have to post on Patriots Blog when I have time).
It has been shocking to read the real history of Lanka. When I think that I used to feel guilty about alleged injustices done to Tamils by sinhalas, I realise that much of what we have grown up believing is just propaganda which was never refuted.
I (and other) do feel guilty about two crimes:
1) several episodes of attacks on Tamil civilians (albeit provoked by Tamil aggression- see Susantha's entry) with inadequate state mechanisms to safeguard them- it appears that the state has accounted for this. There will never be riots in the country in the presence of a strong military (to be followed by a police force). Thus no longer any need to nurse that guilt.
2)Not giving citizenship to Indian Tamils. Actually reading history reveals that this is not as it reads. The situation at Independence was that there were many transitional residents. Those who had been resident in the country continuously for 7 years were offered citizenship. Those who were born were automatically granted citizenship. This was no different to other countries. The issue was with the transitional people who did not want to go back to India. They formed the tamplate for various negotiation between India and SL. Finally, SL solved it any way by giving due recognition of citizenship much to the relief of most of us. No more need to harbour that guilt either.
I might add a third whinge by Tamils who want to push the barrow. That of language. SWRD was only following a pattern emerging in the subcontinent, of giving due recognition to native languages. Apart form the right of SL to have its own official language, his language act was also congruent with the language based division of Indian states (brought in by Nehru in 1956). SWRD was very forthright in recognising the need for reasonable use of Tamil in official business. No other country in the World would have considered it (Canada, NZ etc came many decades later). So to make Tamil an official language in 1987 was overkill. But it seems like Sri Lankans are irrepressibly tolerant. It is a trait to be advertised and admired.
Instead, for their trouble, the Sri Lankans (sinhalas especially) are getting derided.
Well, the worms have decided to turn.
Further to the above, MR said that any solution has to be home grown. The 13th is definitely not home grown and was forced down our throat by India.
How about him trying to keep that promise to our people?
13th's relevance no longer applies as the whole local as well as global situation has changed. How can anyone complaint about us supporting equal rights for all SL citizens?
[sara,
little knowledge can be like monkey with a razor blade. you should arm yourself with a basics before engaging in a discussion with grownups]
I am sorry that you are taking this atttude. I said I am unaware that such a pledge has been made. I did not say that you are wrong and I wouldn't say such a thing unless I am sure.
Now the others have confirmed that the pledge ahs been made to India only.
If you cannot tolerate a little bit of questioning I laave the others to judge who the juvenile is.
I do believe that discussion is important and differing views have to be given due consideration. As Obama said one should listen more to those who disagree with you. That is why I am listening to you more carefully.
I have an opinion about this but I accept the possibilty that I may be wrong. Sorry if I hurt you. Didn't mean to.
dear diyasena,
/*
. A solution forced down our throat using gunboat diplomacy is a far cry from the
*/
yes.. yes.. yes.. that also and 50:50, chelvanayagam.. et al.
but we won this conflict. we need not whinge any more. we must now learn to behave as victors. this starts by showing magnanimity and compassion to the vanquished.
if we keep running around like a bunch of savages frothing in our mouths whinging and whinning, we will look weak. on the other hand, compassion and magnanimity will display our courage and strength to the world. show some quiet dignity worthy of being a majority of this island.
Mosche dyan....
its funny how the whole world knows about 83... but Even most Sinhalese people don't know about these atrocities....
also d u knw gotabaya is agaisnt devolution...but yet he isnsists that sri lanka should have good relations with India...and he is very pro india....so it looks like its not India who is pressuring for 13...i think SL is trying to get the IMF loan..by promisng a devolution...
Panhinda,
We have a large and historically antagonsitc neighbour in Tamilnadu and creating a monoethnic enclave in northern Sri Lanka (with land and police powers) will only compund the problem not solve it..With Thesavalamai and the provincial administration stopping migration of other ethnicities, and actively promoting illegal immigration from overcrowded tamilnadu, serious demographic changes can occur in Sri Lanka...
this has been the problem plaguing all our leaders apart from D.S.Senenanyake..All try to apply short term Bandaid type solutions, which in the long term is detrimental to national interest..Senanayake had a vision with his colonisation scheme..This was Moshes's ethnic integration process (which was viable then and not now)..But all others starting from Banda put political aspirations before national interest..The implementation of Sinhala only was the first such example (it came 10 years too early and without continuing colonisation was useless)..The 13th amendment to appease the international community is another such plaster solution..
diyasena,
/*
We have a large and historically antagonsitc neighbour in Tamilnadu and creating a monoethnic enclave in northern Sri Lanka
*/
sri lanka greatly feared the dravidian movement in india during 1960s. few members of parliament made statements on view of this.
in 1962 when the then CM of Tamil Nadu Annadurai rejected the dravidian nation of periar, sl feared the movement will be transferred to sl.
the fear set forth actions that precipitated in energising the seperatist movement of sl - first of which were rejection of tamil as reasonable use provision. please note, separatists were always here but 1962 gave them the ammunition and also later in 1972 with the republican constitution.
in essence our attempts to pre-empt seperatism actually encouraged it more.
before this sl was not on Tamil Nadu radar as a possible destination for the propagation of their dravidian movement.
the lesson here is do not entertain a fear without having a basis for fear. fear itself is overrated anyway.
mayilravana,
thank you for clarifying.
diyasena,
it is good today as it was then!!
that is the ONLY practical and long lasting solution.
guys,
without 13 full implementation, 13+ and 13-.... can we just have the northern provincial council.
just like any other PC.
that will settle this for the time being.
BR said,
DEMILITARISATION
DEVELOPMENT
DEMOCRATISATION
DEVOLUTION
now why is he trying to jump over???
outright scrapping of the 13 WITHOUT a viable solution will unnecesarily scare the tamils.
so, for the time being, lets have AS IT IS. we have 8 PCs. why not we have the NPC also???
and let it run AS IT IS. nothing more, nothing less.
VICTOR & THE VANQUISHED
Who is the victor here and who is the vanquished? Even according to MR the war was against terror, the Tigers, not Tamils. In fact it was to liberate Tamils that the war was fought (at least that is what he said).
The vanquished therefore were the Tigers. When I suggested showing magnanimity to the vanquished sometime back I meant Tigers and I was nearly mob lynched for it.
Now it is too late to show any magnanimity because the vanquished were also almost fully destroyed. So it is absurd to talk about the 13th as a way of showing magnanimity to the vanquished unless you want to eat your own words and say that the Tamils are the vanquished.
In any case there should be only one critereon in deciding this matter. Is it good or harmful to SL in the long run?
If after extensive analysis, it is found to be harmful, then it should not be adopted. The India factor can come in to this analysis because it is a factor that affects what is good or bad for SL.
In any case a decision should not be taken in a hurry. It can be implemented at any time but once implemented it cannot be undone.
susantha said..
[ i think SL is trying to get the IMF loan..by promisng a devolution...]
Not true. The latest I heard is that the 1-9$B IMF loan is not essential now...the financial situation has improved.
The Great Hoax- The founding of the concept of the Dravidian Race by Rev. Caldwell- Some extracts- (my comments in bold)
EVIDENCES OF THE
SCYTHIAN AFFINITIES
OF THE DRAVIDIAN LANGUAGES,
CONDESSED AND ARRANGED FROM
REV. R. CALDWELL'S COMPARATIVE DRAVIDIAN GRAMMAR.
BY REV. EDWARD WEBB,
MlSSIONARY OF THE A. B. C. F. M.
IN SOUTHERN INDIA.
Presented to the Society October 16th,1861.
(J American Oriental Society)
Racist ideology
"11. The absence of physiological evidence to the contrary. It
is acknowledgecl that, while in some instances physiology has
contributed much to the discovery of the affiliations of races, in
the effort to prove the Scythian relationship of the Dravidians
it renders no aid; but seems, so far as the study has been pur-
sued, to be utterly at fault. The Dravidians might, on the
ground of physical characteristics only, as well be classed with
the Caucasians, or would readily admit of being affiliated with
the Indo-Europeans ; for no essential difference is observed be-
tween the heads and features of the Dravidians and those of the
Brahmans; and, in fact, the Dravidian type of head will even
bear to be directly compared with the European, with more
definite marks of suppleness and subtlety in the former, and of
straight-forward rnoral and mental energy in the latter. "
"Dravidian" could just as well be "Indo-European"
"A similar rule respecting the coalescing of nasals with sonants
only is found in the Finnish, and may be attributed to that deli-
cacy of ear which both Finns and Tamilians appear to possess.
Much use is made in the Dravidian languages-as also, in
truth, in all the languages of India-of a class of letters which
have been termed by some "cerebrals," by others, more cor-
rectly, "linguals." They are t, d, n.
Mr. Norris, in his paper on the language of the Scythic tab-
lets, says that Castrdn, a Finlander, in his Ostiak grammar, uses
distinct characters for the lingual and dental d and t, observing
that similar sounds occur in the Lappish and Finnish tongues;
and this argument has been employed in favor of the Scythian
relationship of the Dravidian languages.
It has been replied, however, that, as this class of letters are
used to a far greater extent in the Sanskrit and northern vernac-
ulars of India than in those languages which are acknowledged
to be Scythian, the conclusion would rather be that the Dravid-
ian languages were Indo-European in their origin.
Mr. Caldwell attempts to prove that these letters were bor-
rowed frorn the Dravidian languages by the Sanskrit after the
arrival of the Aryan race in India; his reasons are: 1. That
these consonants are not found in any of the primitive lan-
guages which are related to the Sanskrit. There is no case of
these sounds in the Aryan family of tongues west of the Indus.
2. These consonants are essential component elements of a large
number of primitive Dravidian roots, and are often necessary
for the discrimination of one root frorn another; whereas, in
most cases, their use in the Sanskrit is merely euphonic. 3.
Those consonants which the Tamil has borrowed from the Sans-
krit have been greatly modified to accord with its own laws of
sound. It systematicaIly softens down every harsh sound which
it adopts; hence it seems improbable that a series of harsh, ring-
ing sounds, like t, d, n, should have been adopted without
change, and used in the expression of a large number of its
most essential roots. 4. Though the Telugu has been more ex-
posed to Sanskrit influences than the Tamil, yet larger use is
made of these sounds in Tamil than in Telugu. "
Caldwell contd.
Criticism from editors, his own contemporaries
We cannot refrain from offering here a few remarks upon the subject
of the preceding paper, particularly as Mr. Webb states himself to have
been urged to its preparation by our, in part nnfarorable, criticisms upon Mr. Caldwell's work. While fully acknowledging the rnerits of the latter as regards its proper subject, the comparison with one another of the
Dravidian langnages, we ventured to express our doubts as to the con-
clusivcness of its author's argument to prove the affiliation of those languages with the Scythian stock. And this chiefly for the reason that, as he himself acknowledges, he is master of only one of the terms of the comparison, having no familiar acquaintance with any of the Scythian dialects, much less a comprehensive knowledge of them, in their history and mutual relations. This objection has been urged, with much
force, against Muller's parallel reasonings upon the same subject, in his letter on the Turanian Languages. To compare, for the purpose of establishing a relationship which is at best a remote one, languages of
which one has not a knowledge both extensive and penetrating, so as to
be able to distinguish ancient from modern, fundamental from accidental, and the like, cannot but be an uncertain and unsatisfactory process. If
the comparative grammar of the Scythian languages had been worked
out with the same thoroughness with that of the Indo-European, such
an undertaking would be vastly more feasible. But this is very far from
being the case as yet. Moreover, the dialects of the Scythian family
are remarkable for their great discordance with one another, for the slenderness of the ties which connect them, and the immense variety of elements and forms which they exhibit;hence the facility of going astray in an incautious ramble through such a wilderness of lexical and grammatical materials is extreme, and a careful comparativc study of the different idioms, and a wary determination and selection of features among
them which can be pronounced of general occurrence, and genuinely ancient, ought to precede any detailed comparison with another family of languages. Here, however, Mr. Caldwell's philological method is at fault ;it is fairly open to criticism throughout as superficial, venturesome,
and credulous. He is much too ready to accept coincidences of any
kind, degree, or origin, as evidences of historical connection. He even catches, as lawful matter of comparison, at the degenerate forms of the modern Persian and of and the dialectic peculiarities of present Teutonic vernaculars ! His whole parallelism of Dravidian words and forms with
Indo-European and Semitic, for the purpose of proving an ultimate con-
nection of the former with the two latter also, contains the merest assonances and chance coincidences, of no account as historical
evidence. We should have expected sound philological method if anywhere, in the comparison of Dravidian and Sanskrit, considering the accessibility of the material, and the position of the author as an Indian philologist : but
of the Sanskrit words compared, at least four-fifths would at once be
recognized by a Sanskrit scholar as not ancient or genuine constituents
of the language. Nor is Mr. Caldwell more accurate in his characterization of the primitive religion of the Indo-European race : of the three distinguishing features laid down by him as belonging to it (see
p. 275, above), the first, metempsychosis, is so far from being original
that it does not even appear in the oldest form of the Hindu religion,
the Vedic; the third, a priestly order, is equally absent from tho Vedic, as from the other primitive forms of the religion of the farnily ; while
the second, worship of the powers of Nature, is cornmon to the Indo-
European with other ancient forms of faith.
Caldwell contd.
It is not too much to say, we think, that all that part of Mr. Caldwell's work which concerns the
comparison of the Dravidian race with any other than the Scythian is
so clearly destitute of scientific value that its omission
would have been a gain rather than a loss. That much of the comparison
with the Scythian also is of the same character, we can hardly doubt; yet here the
mass and variety of the collected evidence is so considerable, and the chance that it may contain items of genuine and decisive value so good, that-considering the interest of the question, and the rarity of Mr.Caldwell's work-we were very ready to admit into the Journal, for more general and convenient examination, Mr. Webb's condensed and compacted sketch of the comparison ; and would merely
add here a few words farther of comment and criticism.
How far the so-called Scythian of the Mesopotamian and Persian
monuments is entitled to be employed as a medial term in this comparison will be for the present a doubtful question among scholars, who have not yet generally accepted with confidence the results of the few investigators who claim to have made the remarkable discovery of an
ancient Ugrian language and civilizatioan-although it must be confessed that those investigations inspire the most lively hope that a light as welcome as unexpected is here to be shed on the remote history of the Scythic race. It can hardly be otherwise than in a linguistic way, however, at any rate, that this dialect should help in settling the question of
Dravidian and Scythian affiliation ; since the place of the people speaking it is too uncertain to justify us in regarding them as a local intermediary between Ugria and India, or as marking a line of emigration from the former to the latter."
The phonetic correspondences pointed out by Mr.Caldwell are for
the most part too universal in their character, too readily explainable by ordinary physiological processes, to be of weight as evidences of special
affiliation: there is hardly one to which abundant analogies might not
be pointed out in languages confessedly not of Scythian stock. Even the appearance in Southern India of the peculiar Scythian law of harmonic sequence of vowels, in a sporadic and partial manner, we should not be inclined to lay much stress upon, considering the naturalness of the phenomenon, and the evident possibility of its independent development, at least to the extent shown, in languages not historically connected with the Scythian.
Caldwell contd.
Among the numerous special coincidences of form industriously assembled and recorded by Mr. Caldwell, while there are unquestionably some which a profounder examination would show to be fallacious, others have a look of genuineness which is very prepossessing. Whether
these are in such numbers, and of such character, as entirely to exclude
the possibility of explaining them as casual resemblances, such as may
be found by careful search between any two groups of languages on the
earth's surface, we should think would have to be reserved for farther investigation and more careful sifting to determine.
The most cogent arguments in favor of the relationship of the Dravidian and Scythian languages which the comparison instituted between them brings to light are, in our view, the correspondences of general form and spirit, apprehension of grammatical relations and treatment
of linguistic materials, which they undeniably present. And if the sci-
ence of comparative philology is strong enough to pronounce
with confidence that such correspondences as are here displayed cannot be the
result of analogous qualities of race, equal grade of capacity and culture, then the whole question is settled. But we are not certain that she has yet so far mastered the immense field of human speech as to be able to do this, and certainly there are few men living who are entitled to be accepted as her mouth-pieces in making the decision. We shall prefer, then, to consider the question of Dravidian affiliation as one not yet authoritatively settled, while giving Mr. Caldwell full credit for contributing most essentially to its final settlement, by such a thorough genetical and comparative exhibition of the Dravidian idioms as few groups of kindred languages, out of the Indo-European family, have yet received.
Regarding Caldwell, the conclusion could be that he used an ancient Indian reference to people of the Peninsula (Dravida- by the water) to refer to a "Race" which he had himself fantasised.
In order to justify his fantasy then he went onto find evidence of connection between "Dravidian languages" and the Northern European and more Mongolian languages (perhaps the affinity of the Northern Europeans to the Dravidianists)
.
He ignores the closeness of "Dravida" languages with Sanskrit or other Indian languages.
Some chance association can also be found between Sinhala and disparate European languages.
It is perhaps better to acknowledge that Human language is something that is intrinsic to the Human brain and is likely to have evolved over a period of at least 80 000 years in which human left Africa. The ancient nature of the language of the Kalahari Bushmen, the most ancient relatives of those who left Africa is undoubted.
Similarly, following the huge Volcanic eruption in Indonesia 75 000 years ago (biggest in 2 million years) many humans of the South Asian subcontinent died separating those in the West (India) from those of the East (Indonesia). Those of India then began a migration over the next 50 000 years and had spread to Europe and Siberia by 20 000 years. The Indonesian survivors spread to Australia and to East Asia. At 20 000 years or so the Humans crossed Berring strait into America. It should be noted that the first Europeans to separate from the parent group in the subcontinent would have arrived at Northern Europe. They are also close genographically to those who spread east through Northern Asia.
It is thus quite likely that many ancient words spread throughout the World but that the Eastern group from Indonesia developed quite separately from the Western group as did the Africans. It does not at all make sense for "Dravidian" group to be so separated by Caldwell as modern genography demonstrates that humans of specific genetic families have lived in the subcontinent for up to 65 000 years ago. These genetic families cut across the "races" defined by Caldwell.
It is time that the "Dravidians" realised their collosal mistake and join the rest of the subcontinental family. On the other hand if they want a fight the whole of the subcontinent can deliver it. So far, only the Europeans have been the winners of the infighting among those of the subcontinent.
I have already pointed to the "Tamil" identity emerging in the 19th century and fuelled by the Dravidian theory of Caldwell. It is interesting that the name which was Tamul in early 19th century became Tamil in mid-19th century and has now evolved into Thamiz. There is nothing wrong with developing a new identity, but to invent an ancient origin by borrowing from Cholas and older Pandyas and renaming them and to create a xenophobic hate-culture against all other people of the sub-continent is unacceptable. Just as minorities in Tamiz-nadu have to accept the dominant culture of that land, it is time that the Thamizas of SL accepted that there is a dominant culture which defines the identity of the island. The willingness of the members of this dominant culture to enshrine the Thamiz culture should be acknowledged with grace rather than with petulance.
MAGNANIMITY
Having failed to get their separate state, homeland, enclave or whatever through their reverred Thalavar, it appears that, people like the TN guy (forget his name) are now looking up to MR to deliver what the Sun God failed to deliver.
What they want is nothing other than the key to the magical kingdom of Eelam.
If that happens, what a turn of events that would be!
MAHADENAMUUTA
Vickramabahu wrote an article about the war comparing it to the famous Mahadenamutta story on the goat and the pot.
If the 13th amendment is implemented, his thinking would be proved to be correct to some extent.
The separatists have lost the goat (the tigers) and the patriots would loose half of the country (the pot).
mayil,
very interesting!
thanks for sharing.
Moshe,
You're welcome.
patriots,
we have to scrap the 13. no two words about that. this needs commitment from MR and ppl.
if MR is trying to fully implement the 13 b4 the NPC election, then there is an even bigger danger.
for some reason he is convinced that his party can win the NPC election!! if he is convinced otherwise, he will work equally hard to scrap the 13.
as all other 8 PCs have elected councils, no harm having a council for the NPC according to what is implemented now.
even india should be convinced that PCs and 13 are NOT going to work at all. IF even thereafter india is talking about 13 or similar, then it will be very clear SL and india cannot agree on it.
i'm 100% sure monkies will disrupt the NPC and create trouble by many other means. UPFA should lose it and the NPC should make things HELL for the govt.
the sooner this REFLECTION POINT happens the better. MR is hellbent on 13 according to some sources. UNP has secretly agreed to help and MR is trying to lure the JVP not to go against it by threatening to dissolve the parliament soon in which case MOST JVP MPs will lose their seats. other behind the scene things are also happening.
MR is said to be in the same trap CBK was in after winning the second term in december 1999. she tried to pass her crappy "package" BEFORE the general election. disaster!!!
this way we can,
1. refrain from immediately implementing 13
2. show to the world that it does not work through a failed PC system.
3. can still keep MR at the top.
4. avoid india's anger at outright rejection of the 13.
5. shift the blame to TE camp for not making use of the PC system and trying to make it a TE tool.
6. utterly disappoint MR and ppl about the 13, PCs, federalism (uses similar structures).
7. this is like an experiment in laboratory conditions.
Extracts of some conclusions by a Japanese-Sri Lankan collaboration on the system of University admissions in SL:
Analysis of Policies for Allocating University Resources in Heterogeneous Social
Systems: A Case Study of University Admissions in Sri Lanka
Prasantha Herath; Kamala Liyanage; Morikazu Ushiogi; Hiromitsu Muta
Higher Education, Vol. 34, No. 4. (Dec., 1997), pp. 437-457.
"It is observed that in a country with 17 million people, only less than 800 students qualified per year to become engineers and 1000 students qualified per year to become doctors. Immediate action is needed to increase those numbers.
Standardization of marks is necessary at the GCEA/L since the raw marks do not represent a valid measuring tool to compare and hence do not have an absolute significance in comparison. Factors such as variation of examiners' standards, variation in the marking standard from medium to medium,
variation in the difficulty level from year to year for different subjects can be eliminated to a certain extent by standardizing the raw marks. Subject and language based standardization does no harm to the marks. The best individuals stay the best.
Schools in thirteen out of twenty-two districts did not produce a single engineer or doctor until 1979. Over 70% of the schools in Sri Lanka preparing students for the university admission did not and could not prepare any science
students for university education until 1980s. The 100% district quota-based admission policy generated inter- and intra-district competition, communication and cooperation which resulted in a new wave of regional economic
development since the middle of 1970s. This study found many cases related to talented students from rural areas. For example, a student entered on the district base and standardized grades policy, from a disadvantaged area with
a 180 range GCE A/L total aggregate, showed excellent performance in all examinations at the university. This student out-performed all the other stu-
dents with near 300 range aggregate and finally received the only first class honors degree from his discipline. Also, it is found that there is no correlation
between GCE A/L raw marks and the results of the university examination or their performance in the society after graduation. Some of the students with top GCE A/L aggregates performed well in the university examinations.
It is observed that there is no higher intelligence in the students coming from Colombo or Jaffna. Surprisingly, some students from such districts had difficulties in competing with the students enrolled from rural areas."
Re: above article
It makes me sick to the stomach considering the loss to the country of talent which could have been fostered from the rural poor because the SLG had to give into the demands of a vociferous minority.
The same principle applies to cricket. Look at the fruits of fostering outstation cricketers in terms of the talent that is coming through.
Equal Opportunities and Anti-Discrimination legislation is a must for the country. Every institution (public or private) should be monitored on employment of a minimum % from different groups. This should be part of a National Integration policy.
Incentives should be given to organisations which adhere to a National Integration policy. Particularly for integrating groups who are under-represented in the organisation. Such policy could be extended to villages as well.
REWARD THOSE GROUPS WHO ADOPT INTEGRATION AND PROMOTE DIVERSITY. THIS I WOULD THINK IS MUST FOR NEW SL.
Naturally, disadvantaged groups must get preferential advantage (provided they have acquired skills or have proven aptitude). Thus we should see more Vanniela Aetto, Tranvestites and low-caste Tamils hob-knobbing with the Colombo set.
I have omitted Gay people because they are already well represented in positions of power.
Political parties in particular will need heavy arm-twisting to nominate up to 50% female candidates.
If Anti-discrimination legislation is strictly adhered to then that would also be the end of Political parties or Publicly floated companies with exclusive ethnic membership.
If MR carried out such legislation along with devolution to village level, then Match will be over in one generation. 13 will be superfluous by then.
Wimal says president has no intention of fully implementing the 13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vagtuWJHSHw&feature=channel_page
Guys read this small article,
http://www.divaina.com/2009/07/05/feature13.html
We are hearing what Wimal says and what DJ says etc.
Are they accountable for GOSL's actions? I do not think so.
Why doesn't President tell his plans?
gotabaya rajapakses view on power devoution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqfNZ3xbf_I
2009 11:03 AM
Moshe Dyan said...
india AGAIN trying to bring back the monarchy
Moshe,
I think the Nepal example is a good lesson for small countries in the neighborhood. India is acting like a pupeteer in Nepal literally pulling the strings and causing governments to come and go. They have no political affinity to either the Maoists or Monarchists. It is India's way of asserting control in that country.
In the Sri Lankan context having ideological and religious elements like the JHU and JVP-Weerawansa in the governing coalition means the Govt must satisfy their wishes in some way.
India has a very complex but close relationship with the TNA which has in the past had open door access to officials at the highest levels of the Indian central govt. India and the west will likely try to develop similar relationships with officials of any new provicial structure thereby undermining efforts to unify and integrate the country along national lines.
Therefore, it is crucial that if the 13th amendment or something similar to it is implemented that provincial governments do not have direct contacts with foreign governments or have direct access to foreign aid through UN institutions like the World Bank or other national agencies.
CASC,
"Therefore, it is crucial that if the 13th amendment or something similar to it is implemented that provincial governments do not have direct contacts with foreign governments or have direct access to foreign aid through UN institutions like the World Bank or other national agencies."
This is one of the greatest threats as you pointed out correctly. Blake already tried this (having direct dealings) regarding the Eastern Provincial Council. Considering a Pro-government team in power in EPC I do not know how successful he was.
But avoiding such in Northern PC may not be easy. Even in case of the eastern PC, if a different provincial government comes in to power one never knows what will happen.
I believe that there should be a clause or two in 13 th preventing this. But finding holes in such wouldn't be that hard (remember the hedging deal).
As it is, likes of Blake wanted to deal with it directly. With more powers there is a real threat in this regard.
Guys,
do you remember this SPECIAL FORCES team?
back then, I assumed this is what prompted DefenceNet to write the following article;
Special Forces Alpha Squad details revealed by media
and now my doubts have been cleared...
SF Alpha Squad
Puffy,
What are the original sources of these photos? Please give us the links.
Puffy,
Your second photo is a doctored photo. Where did you find this?
The Serendipity Group met last week in Washington. It consists of retired and current U.S. foreign service officers who have served in Sri Lanka. The group was addressed by Robert Blake. According to someone who was there his tone was very positive. Most of the pointed remarks were made by Teressita Schaefer, a former Ambassador, who is very close to Pakiasorthy Saravanamuththu. Generally speaking, those U.S. diplomats who served in the prior decades have a better attitude towards Sri Lanka compared to those served in the recent past (Jeffrey Lunstead, Teressita Schaefer and Robert Blake)
"When UNP signed the CFA in 2002 legitimizing the LTTE rule in a good part of the area which Chandrika originally offered in the 2000 proposals, the UNP membership supported that but the SLFP opposed it. Again when Chandrika offered to P-TOM (Post Tsunami Organization Mechanism), the UNP again opposed it and the SLFP membership supported it.
A study of these documents should convince that they were offers, either very much similar, if not effectively identical, in content. What Chandrika and Ranil had done in fact was to oppose one and offer another which was worse than the one they opposed. But the party membership supported them purely because they were sponsored by their party and opposed by their rival party. The Sri Lankan nation however, should be thankful to Prabhakaran for he rejected every one of those and prevented their implementation."
-Palitha Senanayake
click here.
I fear we may end up repeating the same.
"The Sri Lankan nation however, should be thankful to Prabhakaran for he rejected every one of those and prevented their implementation"
There is no prabhakaran anymore to save us from such blunders (made by stupid politicians who thought they knew everything).
I have no issue with any form on governance as long as It does not lead to separation . This is what should be watched . The provinces are not sovereign the state is . Any contact with foreign entities should be through the state . In my life I have seen many forms of governance , unitary like Sri Lanka - State based like Australia and state and county based like the US . None of which has ever led to separation form the federal .
In my view something of this nature can easily be implemented without and danger to the unitary status of the country . As is normally the case the devil is in the details . As long as these details are taken care of I doubt your fears will be realized . Remember these PC;s will also have others other than the northern and the eastern .
I supported MR through out the war - and like pahinda has said we have FINALLY got a statesman ,at long last . I will trust him to do the right thing for the country.
As for the unarmed jvp being put down in the 70's and the 80's they were hardly unarmed . and as for them being closer to the worker - that is rubbish . only a bunch of idiot university students were their main supporters . The workers by and large did not and will not support them .
I do understand your motivations and I agree they are honorable . but as for the method lets agree to disagree .
Dont Panic fellas.....this happens every where after military defeats.Someone wants to make a statement abt. WE RE STILL AROUND !
Our intel needs to be a step ahead of this game now ...right ?
Having said that we HAVE to prosecute Ltte high brass... cuz, these morons are die hard !
But, still like to know how they got those Torpedoe's into Mullaitivu ...anyone ?
Good Post mate !
Comparing the Success of Australian and US system of governance with our situation is not correct I think. Australia and USA became federations as means of getting together. Prior to that the states, in both countries acted as independent governments. They became federations in a process which can be called CONVOLUTION (instead of devolution), strengthening the central government as a result.
In case of Australia states did it willingly in fear of German invasion (primary among other reasons). In case of US most did willingly and others were forced to.
In case of Sri Lanka it is done as a step of a DEVOLUTION process and as a bribe to secessionist dreamers.
Two situations are completely different.
During the recent congressional hearing on South Asia, Blake had many demands from Sri Lanka. Yes he was optimistic under the conditions his demands were met. Only progress he has seen was the better access to INGOS. Even in that case, there were lot more to do (he said).
hemantha said...
[ In case of Australia states did it willingly in fear of German invasion (primary among other reasons). In case of US most did willingly and others were forced to. ]
Hemantha,
In the case of the US, it was also the FEAR of being attacked and re-occupied by European powers, including the British, that led to the PERMANENT banding together of the 13 colonies into the United States. That fear and need for a common defence was real, and in fact war erupted again between the US and Britain in 1812.
There were great political and social divisions between the states, and many of the southern states did not feel any real kinship with the northern states. These attitudes persisted to re-emerge a hundred years later, and be played out in the US civil war.
The vividly fresh memory of the War of Independance, and the royal gallows they escaped by a hairsbreadth, gave true perspective to the saying that UNITED WE WILL STAND, DIVIDED WE WILL FALL...e Pluribus Unum...indeed. That FEAR trumped ALL OTHER REASONS against union.
Only a few of the founders, like Alexander Hamilton, had a clear vision beyond the security issue, of the business, financial and administrative efficiencies that would accrue to the colonies, arising from their union.
Ananda,
Agree. Thanks.
patriots,
ok, i DID backtrack yesterday on my stand. that was bcos i got heads up on the hindu's interview with the president. some info from my source seems not so accurate but the bulk was accurate.
i think SOME of our fears are UNFOUNDED. but we must ALWAYS (ALWAYS) be vigilent.
agree with panhinda and ali that MR is a GREAT statesman. although we are going to keep an eye on him, he's no fool or a puppet.
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE IMPENDING POLITICAL SOLUTION
here's what the president says.
I am waiting for them. The TNA representatives must come and participate in the discussions [on the political solution]. I am getting delayed because they haven’t done this yet. [On July 2, leaders and representatives of 22 political parties, including the TNA, participated in the inaugural meeting of the newly constituted All Parties Committee to build a consensus among political parties for development and reconciliation, giving priority to the speedy resettlement and rehabilitation of the war-displaced.] I am waiting but it will be after my [re-]election [as President]. I must get the mandate. After that, the political solution comes. Even tomorrow I can give that — but I want to get that from the people. Even today somebody said: “The 13th Amendment. We are not for…” I called them and gave them a piece of my mind. I called our party leaders and told them: “Now what I’m going to tell you, you’re not going to tell anybody. It’s between you and I.” Only party leaders were there. But today a professor from a university called me to say, “Thank you very much.” I said: “For what?” He said: “This morning you have warned all the people about racism. And what you said has been highly regarded. This call is to thank you.” I asked, “How do you know?” He said: “No sir, I just heard.” This professor, a Tamil man, had immediately got the news. “Whether it is Sinhalese, Tamil or Muslim, I am telling you all. No racism. Don’t try to create problems for me.”
[As for the political] solution, I’m willing. I know what to give and I know what not to give. The people have given me the mandate, so I’m going to use it. But I must get these people [the TNA representatives] to agree to this. They must also know that they can’t get what they want. No way for federalism in this country. For reconciliation to happen, there must be a mix [of ethnicities]. Here the Sinhalese, the Tamils, and Muslims inter-marry. In my own family, there have been mixed marriages: Sinhalese with Tamils, Sinhalese with Muslims. This is Sri Lankan society. No one can change this.
VERY WELL SAID MR PRESIDENT.
EXACTLY what we want.
NR: You have this idea of a Second Chamber.
President: Yes, I want to get representatives from the Provinces involved in national policy-making. And if there is anything against a Provincial Council, they can protect their powers constitutionally. I have an arrangement in mind — this is what we call ‘home-grown solutions’ — but the idea needs to be discussed and the details settled. I don’t want to impose any arrangement.
ANOTHER EXCELLENT PLAN!! yes we are against racial regionalisation but we are 100% for equal CONSITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
Ali said...
[None of which has ever led to separation form the federal . ]
Ali, brother,
I beg to differ with your statement above. Please consider the following counterexamples:
The US Civil War, the most bloody of civil wars ever fought in modern history, was fought precisely TO PREVENT SEPARATION of the Confederate States from the UNITED STATES, just like the EELAM WAR.
The relatively weak Federal form of government was at the root of why the Southern states felt justified in moving towards independence.
Nigeria also had a FEDERAL form of government, and fought the Nigerian Civil War to prevent secession by the Ibo people of South Eastern Nigeria.
So, the FEDERAL form of government weakens the ability of the Center to hold a country together and OFTEN leads to successful secession and disintegration of countries...see Yugoslavia for example.
Decentralized government is necessary for large countries with far-flung provinces, but small Sri Lanka does not. In one day, I have driven all around this entire island of ours..why do we need all of the complex ponderous machinery of a FEDERAL system to manage our miniscule provinces? Only would be Sepratists who understand the WEAKNESS, and the would be Maharajahs who want to become Governers/Chief Ministers want this.
Such a costly tax-supported welfare system will drive the final nail into the back of of poor citizens hardly able to lift a inger before they run afoul of a tax or a law.
mayil,
ANOTHER great contribution.
truth is STRANGER than fiction, for some!!!
(bcos they were living in a ficticious world)
from strategypage.
"Sri Lanka is buying six Israeli Super Dvora Mk III patrol boats. This model first entered service five years ago, and have been a great success.
The 86 foot boats can operate in as little as four feet of water, thus they are useful for landing, or picking up, commandos.
The boats are armed with a multibarrel 20mm cannon, or a single barrel 25-30mm cannon and a 40mm automatic grenade launcher.
There is a crew of nine. The 70 ton boats can sprint to over 90 kilometers an hour, and have a max range (depending on cruising speed) of 1,800 kilometers. Most patrols are about 12 hours, but the boats can stay out three times longer if necessary. The propulsion system includes water jets, providing enormous maneuverability. This, and the high speed, enables the boats to catch smugglers or terrorists riding in speed boats. Electronics include radar, radio and GPS. These boats will mostly be used to prevent smuggling between India and Sri Lanka."
ali & ananda,
don't worry. federalism is OUT!!
even racist regionalisation is OUT!!
the problem is equal rights and MR is after that. he MIGHT have a soft corner for PCs but he is considering other plans too.
laughter the best medicine!!!!
from toiletnet.
Despite all their geopolitical rivalries, the agenda of priority for all powers is to save the Sri Lankan state at any cost, whatever genocide it may commit. The talk of terrorism was a smokescreen. LTTE was not the problem, but the liberation struggle of Tamils, seen collectively by all powers as ‘destabilising’ to geopolitics and imperialism was the problem. (GOT IT AT LAST???)
Emboldened by this weakness in the collective geopolitical outlook of the powers, the Sinhala regime is playing its cards by distributing economic and strategic resources of the island to the appetite of powers that are prepared to abet in its genocidal agenda. Mahinda Rajapaksa has been quoted saying that if Hambantota is given to China Kaankeasanthu’rai will be given to India. (WHAT CAN TAMIL ELAM GIVE OTHER THAN THEIR CUNTS FOR A FREE FCUK TO WHITES???)
The height of the actual war against Tamil national aspirations in the island is in progress only now. All want to see the Eezham Tamils on their own confirming subjugation. A vicious argument is brought in that once Tamils give up their nationhood and the right to self-determination only the Sinhalese will be agreeable even to their very existence in the island. (OF COURSE! AT LAST YOUR DUMB BRAINS GOT IT!!!)
Mr. Karunanidhi has more valid reasons in shielding Colombo in its war crimes. If Colombo is ‘angered’ and opens its mouth, it is not only the two bureaucratic gentlemen who were shuttling between New Delhi and Colombo in finalising the agenda that killed 20,000 Tamils in a single day and incarcerated 300,000, but also many higher-ups behind them who will find indictment in the war crimes. (AHA! NOW YOU ARE THINKING!!)
Many see the war just ended only as a crushing defeat of the LTTE. They also gleefully but wrongly think that along with the LTTE the Tamil national question also will be forgotten. (YOU SAID “MANY”. NOT ME)
THE PRIZE GOES TO THIS ONE!!!!
When all the powers are blind in their geopolitical greed, the LTTE has made a strong point to human civilisation by fighting all alone a liberation war with determination, against all the powers, without playing into the hands of anyone. (WHAT A CREATIVE WAY TO SAY LTTE WAS REJECTED BY ALL!!!! SOUR GRAPES!!!) Even though the guilty are ashamed to accept, the implications of the war are universally significant.
The war has challenged and exposed the very international system, from the mighty US imperialism and the imperial-aspirants of the same genre to the so-called ‘United Nations’ that has no nations in it but governments. (HAS IT???? NO. EVERYONE HAS FORGOTTEN IT) While it is evident that the UN is long heading for the fate of its predecessor, The League of Nations doomed after failure in Manchuria and Abyssinia, it is the Eezham war that has decisively proved that even in human rights the UN is impotent. (THEN WHY ON EARTH DID THE LTTE MOTHERS CRIED FOR THE IMPOTENT UN TO FCUK THEM AND GIVE THEM CHILDREN!!!!)
The war has opened up the eyes of many in the civilized world. (IT CERTAINLY OPENED A WOUND IN THE ARSEHOLE OF VEZAPILLAI)
The Eezham Tamils have a great responsibility in taking up their liberation struggle of universal significance from the point where the LTTE left it. (SO THE WORLD IS A ROTTEN PLACE. TAMIL ELAM GOES COSMIC!!!! )
The geopolitical perspectives of powers favouring Sri Lanka could have been altered, had there been a determined Tamil Nadu. (NOW THIS IS DUMB. HOW CAN TAMIL MADU EVEN WITHOUT AN ARMY DO THAT?????)But for reasons best known to him Mr. Karunanidhi decided otherwise and is now advising the Eezham Tamils to shed their national identity.
laughter...contd.
Karunanidhi’s stand will be a shot in the arm for Colombo to go for more brutal proscription of all forms of Tamil nationalism in the island and will also discourage international sympathisers of the Tamil cause. (HE CANNOT ALWAYS PLAY THE ASS CLOWN AFTER ALL. HE IS NOW A BIT SANE.)
The anus of facing the situation now entirely rests on the Eezham Tamil diaspora, (NOW THAT IS A GREAT PIECE OF ADVICE. ANUS=ARSE) as it is the only entity that has the freedom of expression. Response to Karunanidhi has to come from the diaspora through reaffirming the Vaddukkoaddai resolution.
There are some who choose to ridicule that if Tamil Eelam couldn’t be achieved when it was fought for in the island, how can it be achieved merely by the diaspora asserting to it. (OH!!! THEY ARE “MODAYAS”.)
The geopolitical equations of powers are ephemeral. Political thinking in Chennai and New Delhi are also ephemeral. But a national liberation struggle that too the struggle of a people who have been so brutally and inhumanly treated by their oppressors, is fortified by the flow of blood and is obsessed to continue until justice is meted out. It can never be like the DMK forgetting Dravida Nadu. (AT LEAST THEY HAVE TAMIL NADU. WHAT THE FCUK DO YOU HAVE!!)
after all that BRAINWASHING crap, toiletnet complains..
"Brain fever has been on the increase among Vanni Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) held in internment centres located in Vavuniyaa, according to medical sources in the district hospital. Majority of them who succumbed to brain fever were less than 24 years of age, medical sources said."
what do you expect, after brainwashing <24 year olds so much????
VEZAPILLAI too died from brain fever. just look at the pix. it spreads from PIGS!!!
Moshe Dayan quoted strategypage...
[ The boats are armed with a multibarrel 20mm cannon, or a single barrel 25-30mm cannon and a 40mm automatic grenade launcher. ]
I would advocate adding a little more firepower to these relatively expensive vessels, for use beyond anti-smuggling operations, by adding very compact ship-to-ship and ship-to-air dual-use guided missile launcher.
Ask not why, and against which enemies.
Moshe Dayan said...
[ ali & ananda,
don't worry. federalism is OUT!!
even racist regionalisation is OUT!!
the problem is equal rights and MR is after that. he MIGHT have a soft corner for PCs but he is considering other plans too. ]
OK, that is good news, but I would advise Patriots not to rest on your laurels.
ETERNAL VIGILANCE is ESSENTIAL to make sure there is no DRIFT IN FOCUS away from OPPOSITION to Devolution of Power on an ETHNIC BASIS.
Remember, we are dealing with POLITICIANS whose need to hold on to power often transcends their patriotism and good sense. Things of such IMPORT to ALL OF US cannot be left only to POLITICAL LEADERS; we must examine everything crtically.
Further, we will have to keep up the DRUMBEAT of opposition to FEDERALISM, and ETHNICITY based political solutions that will divide Sri Lanka into ethnic cantons, and prevent the MASSES from losing focus and being misled by separatists, NGOs and foreign nations.
We must CONTINUE to hammer-in the MESSAGE on ETHNIC INTEGRATION as the ONLY SOLUTION to Sri Lanka's communal and separatist ills.
Who knows, maybe OUR POLITICAL LEADERS are reading our posts, becoming convinced of their intrinsic logical value, and are open to ESPOUSING them?
If so, then we are HELPING them do the right thing for Sri Lanka, when ALL THE WORLD is preaching parochial self-serving solutions at them.
A mark of a GREAT LEADER is the ability to UNDERSTAND & GRASP good solutions, MAKE THEM HIS OWN, and RUN AHEAD OF THE PACK waving the flag to lead the masses in that direction. A GREAT LEADER does not care where, or from whom, the ideas originate, if they are the RIGHT ONES for Sri Lanka.
Furthermore, who is better qualified than PATRIOTS to offer advice, springing from deep within their patriotic hearts and minds, to protect our Motherland for ALL TIME?
Ananda,
it does carry HELLFIRE type guided missles. the gun is connected to fire control radar and therefore automatic.
i doubt this can carry GABRIEL type missiles.
it was put to service in 2005 by israel and sold to SL THE SAME YEAR!!
islael has NOT sold this to any other country!!! ONLY to SL.
a friend in need is a friend indeed!!!
susantha said..
[ gotabaya rajapakses view on power devoution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqfNZ3xbf_I ]
susantha,
Thank you for posting this video.
In this video, GR expresses support for our views against devolution of power on an ethnic basis. I urge all Patriots to view this video, for it will ease some of your anxieties.
May the Triple Gem Bless & Protect this GREAT PATRIOT & LEADER!
GR Video
This took a big load of our mind. Thanks, Susantha, for posting it.
I particularly liked the bit about Obama.
Guys,
Amazing cricket: Sri Lanka Vs Pakistan Test in Galle.
When play ended yesterday, I though SL will lose, but today Pakistan collapsed 87/7 with 88 runs to go. SL will win! AMAZING!
Ananada said
[Remember, we are dealing with POLITICIANS whose need to hold on to power often transcends their patriotism and good sense. Things of such IMPORT to ALL OF US cannot be left only to POLITICAL LEADERS; we must examine everything crtically.]
Exactly my opinion. I wanted to post something like this but I did not do so for fear of raising the wrath of certain bloggers here.
But Anada, you being a senior blogger, you can say such things with impunity and thanks for doing so.
You may support politicians and you may praise them even when they don't deserve it.
BUT YOU SHOULD NEVER TRUST A POLITICIAN.
SL Vs Pakistan: 58 runs and 1 wicket to go for SL Victory! Jaya Wewa!
SARA, brother,
Nobody lets me get away with anything either; I have plenty of scars on my back to prove it.
My point is, unlike ordinary citizens, the very existence of politicians depends on pandering to the power blocks ... so it is a very rare man who can always pursue the correct path consistently, in the public's and the nation's interest.
That is where we come in ... to make sure no one strays from that path.
We have the freedom politicians don't have, to push for the right thing, because our immediate survival does not depend on pleasing anyone, although our long term survival is inextricably linked to the survival of the country we love.
So, we must be VIGILANT of ALL POLITICIANS, even those near and dear to us.
SL Vs Pakistan: SL won by 51 runs! Jaya, Jaya, Jaya Wewa!
Do we REALLY need Indian Army Experts in SL for "demining"? LoL!
Indian Army to help de-mine Sri Lanka
ExpressBuzz.com
July 6, 2009
NEW DELHI: After providing medical services to thousands displaced by war, Indian soldiers will now go to Sri Lanka to help de-mine areas once held by the Tamil Tigers, it was announced Monday.
The military personnel will be part of Indian experts who will assist authorities in Sri Lanka to detect and defuse thousands of mines laid by the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon told the media here.
"We will send experts and equipment to Sri Lanka. Yes, this will possibly include army experts," Menon said.
India deployed troops in Sri Lanka's northeast in 1987. The soldiers returned home in 1990 after suffering nearly 1,200 dead in a dragging war against the LTTE.
As the Sri Lankan military battled the Tamil Tigers this year, India sent military doctors to take care of the thousands escaping from LTTE territory. The medical personnel were first based in Sri Lanka's east and are now located in the north.
Menon's comments came shortly after Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee announced in his budget speech that India would grant Rs.500 crore ($100 million) for the relief and rehabilitation of Tamils displaced by the fighting in the island's northeast.
robert mcnamara has died.
what a brain that was!!
i love his mathematical models used in war. true, he lost the V-WAR but that cannot discount his skills. he faced a lot of obstacles in decision making during the V-WAR. he did what had to be done. some SOB had to do it.
may he be called to heaven.
Moshe Dyan said...
[robert mcnamara has died.
what a brain that was!!
i love his mathematical models used in war'
Moshe, where can you get these models?
OBAMA'S new policy speech at the Moscow School of Economics is very intersting from the point of view of SL.
Unfortunately it is only a lot of hot air as far as we are concerned. The fairness is aimed at an equally poerful nation, Russia, and not for small nations like us.
Are we buying Dvoras??
Why? We can manufacture our own fast attack craft in sl can't we??
Is this true and what is the reason behind it?
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsurf/articles/20090706.aspx
Why do we have to buy Dvoras?Are Israel dvoras better than ours?
May be some one wants something else ...
All,
I heard through a friend of mine that the Canadian High Commission here in Colombo are rejecting visa applications if the applicant is Sinhalese? If this is true, then I guess that Canada is engaging in acts of racial discrimination against Sinhalese. Can somebody confirm this news if you have any recent experience at the Canadian High Commission in Colombo?
Sam
Previously british embassy used to do the same .
Sam Perera,
The 2nd photo of the Alpha Squad with the General was displayed at the 'Deyata Kirula' Army stall.
May be DefenceWire can authenticate it since he is closely attached to the SF!
DefenceWire??????
Fantastic to see the current discussion - sustained and unwavering. I can mostly be just an observer with my level of knowledge in this subject.
On almost a side note, a couple of suggestions (the origins of the first idea I picked up from someone else)
1) We could have garment factories set up in the North, in the areas where the IDPs will resettle. This will:
- create good benefits for the local and national economy
- and therefore improve the standards of living of the people
- help in ethnic integration if management etc. are from a multi-ethnic background.
- help retain the GSP trade preference because Tamil civilians will be directly affected.
2) We could hold outbound-type camps for young Sri Lankans living abroad. Srilankan airlines can provide free return tickets. Other expenses should be borne by GOSL or the parties carrying this out. Candidates can be selected by drawing lots (once they have applied)
What this may do is, get Tamil diaspora kids also to apply for this fantastic freebie (who doesn't like freebies??). This will help change the perception of Tamil youngsters about Sri Lanka and the Sinhalese - what better defence of our country?
Another idea: there are all sorts of NGOs for interfering in sovereign nations, on various pretexts. So why not create an NGO/think-tank dedicated for the non-interference of other nations? This body can be even part of a university.
Rajaratasurfer said...
[ Having said that we HAVE to prosecute Ltte high brass... cuz, these morons are die hard ! ]
Yes, indeed!
I particularly want to see the TNA Sri Lankan MPs investigated for unpatriotic, seditious, treasonous activities, prosecuted and thrown in prison for long periods.
The principle that, irrespective of your sympathies and alliegences, treachery is punishable by death should be made very clear and enforced by the legal system. Laws that are ignored, never enforced, are openly flouted are NO LAWS AT ALL, and place the nation at risk by giving the FALSE IMPRESSION to the people that the country is being protected.
If certain western countries start yelling about human rights and democracy when these steps are taken, we have to point out their own prosecutions of traitors, especially in times of war ... and there were plenty of them.
For example, the word "Quisling", now synonymous with treachery, originated in that hallowed bastion of LTTE protectors ... NORWAY ... during World War II.
When the German occupation of Norway ended in May 1945, several thousand Norwegians and foreign citizens were tried, convicted and executed (45) for various acts of treason and war crimes that the occupying powers sanctioned.
Excerpt from Wikipedia.org: "The German invasion of Norway during World War II created a number of constitutional issues, chiefly related to what was the legitimate Norwegian government, and whether the constitution and Norwegian code of law remained in effect during the occupation. Although the occupying power, under Reichskommissar Josef Terboven and the puppet Norwegian regime under Vidkun Quisling claimed that the Norwegian government had abandoned its authority in the spring of 1940, the Norwegian government claimed that it had merely capitulated the military struggle for the homeland, while the executive branch had been given special powers by the Norwegian parliament through the Elverum Authorization. The Norwegian government's claim was upheld both by parliament and the Norwegian Supreme Court after the war, which in turn led to an extensive set of indictments and convictions against Norwegian citizens for treason, and German citizens for war crimes[1].
As early as 1941 and 1942, the Norwegian government in exile put into effect a number of decrees regarding treasonous acts. Capital punishment was reinstituted as an option, prison sentences under hard labor were approved, higher upper limits for financial penalties, and a new controversial measure known as "loss of public confidence," (tap av almenn tillit), effectively depriving those convicted of various civil privileges. These decrees reached a final, workable form on December 15, 1944, the so-called Landssvikanordning. Crimes defined in these decrees notably included membership in Nasjonal Samling, the Norwegian fascist party that collaborated with the Nazis.[2]"
Every European country liberated by the Allies in World War II, had its own trials of traitors. The Nuremberg Trial in Germany judged only the highest Nazi authorities, but each country attempted in judging its Collaborationists (e.g. Pierre Laval in France was judged and sentenced to death, while Philippe Pétain was also sentenced to death, but Charles de Gaulle later commuted his sentence into a life condemnation). Government action to the form of investigation and interrogation for people suspected to be such. For example: U.S. DOJ Office of Special Investigations. These countries included the UK, US, USSR, France, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Greece, Baltic Republics, Poland, Argentina (see Pursuit of Nazi Collaborators ).
Treason Prosecutions & Law in Australia (From Wikipedia.org)
History
Early prosecutions for sedition in Australia include:
the conviction of Henry Seekamp for seditious libel over the Eureka Rebellion in 1854;
the conviction of 13 trade union leaders of the 1891 Australian shearers' strike for sedition and conspiracy; and
the action against radical Harry Holland, jailed for two years in 1909 over his advocacy of violent revolution during the Broken Hill miners' strike.
During the First World War Sedition laws were used against those who opposed conscription and war, in particular the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) in Australia [1]. In 1916 members of the IWW in Perth were charged with sedition including 83 year old Montague Miller, known as the grand old man of the labour movement. Miller was released after serving a few weeks of his sentence but was re-arrested in 1917 in Sydney at the age of 84 and sentenced to six months jail with hard labour at Long Bay Gaol on the charge of belonging to an unlawful association [2]. The Sydney Twelve were all charged and convicted with various offences including sedition.
Lance Sharkey, then General-Secretary of the Communist Party of Australia, was charged that, in March 1949 he:
uttered the following seditious words: "If Soviet Forces in pursuit of aggressors entered Australia, Australian workers would welcome them. Australian workers would welcome Soviet Forces".
The last prosecution was in 1960, when Department of Native Affairs officer Brian Cooper was prosecuted for urging "the natives" of Papua New Guinea to demand independence from Australia. He was convicted, and committed suicide four years later, after losing his appeal.
Recent cases
The Australian government in 2006 investigated Islamist books found in Lakemba and Auburn in Sydney promoting suicide bombings, anti-Australian conspiracies and racism, but the Australian Federal Police found in 2006 they did not breach Commonwealth Criminal Code or NSW Crimes Acts 1900. [3]
Previous Australian Treason Law
Colonial legislation, for example the Queensland Criminal Code (1899), first established sedition in Australian law.
The Federal period offence of sedition was created in the Federal Crimes Act (1914) [4].
Seditious Intention
Section 24 defined a seditious intention as [a]n intention to effect any of the following purposes:
(a) to bring the Sovereign into hatred or contempt;
(d) to excite disaffection against the Government or Constitution of the Commonwealth or against either House of the Parliament of the Commonwealth;
(f) to excite Her Majesty's subjects to attempt to procure the alteration, otherwise than by lawful means, of any matter in the Commonwealth established by law of the Commonwealth; or
(g) to promote feelings of ill-will and hostility between different classes of Her Majesty's subjects so as to endanger the peace, order or good government of the Commonwealth;
Seditious Enterprises
Section 24B defined a seditious enterprise as an enterprise undertaken in order to carry out a seditious intention, and Section 24C specified that [a] person who engages in a seditious enterprise with the intention of causing violence, or creating public disorder or a public disturbance, is guilty of an indictable offence punishable on conviction by imprisonment for not longer than 3 years, although Section 24D(2) provided that [a] person cannot be convicted of any of the offences defined in section 24C or this section upon the uncorroborated testimony of one witness.
Seditious Words
Section 24B defined seditious words as words expressive of a seditious intention, and Section 24D(1) specified that [a]ny person who, with the intention of causing violence or creating public disorder or a public disturbance, writes, prints, utters or publishes any seditious words shall be guilty of an indictable offence punishable by imprisonment for 3 years.
Summary Prosecution
Section 24E allowed that, while an accused person might elect to be committed for trial, sedition could, with the consent of the Attorney-General, be prosecuted summarily, in which case the applicable penalty would be imprisonment for a period not exceeding 12 months.
Good Faith
Section 24F specified that nothing in the preceding provisions made it unlawful:
(a) to endeavour in good faith to show that the Sovereign, the Governor-General, the Governor of a State, the Administrator of a Territory, or the advisers of any of them, or the persons responsible for the government of another country, has or have been, or is or are, mistaken in any of his or their counsels, policies or actions;
(b) to point out in good faith errors or defects in the government, the constitution, the legislation or the administration of justice of or in the Commonwealth, a State, a Territory or another country, with a view to the reformation of those errors or defects;
(c) to excite in good faith another person to attempt to procure by lawful means the alteration of any matter established by law in the Commonwealth, a State, a Territory or another country;
(d) to point out in good faith, in order to bring about their removal, any matters that are producing, or have a tendency to produce, feelings of ill-will or hostility between different classes of persons; or
(e) to do anything in good faith in connexion with an industrial dispute or an industrial matter.
In considering a good faith defence, it was specifically noted that the Court might consider whether the case involved the safety or defence of the Commonwealth; assistance to countries or organisations at war with the country or its allies, or to enemies of its allies (whether or not they are enemies of Australia); traitors or saboteurs; or the intention of causing violence or creating public disorder or a public disturbance.
Previous Australian Treason Law ...continued...
Unlawful Organisations
Section 30A declared that any body of persons, incorporated or unincorporated (or [a]ny branch or committee of an unlawful association, and any institution or school conducted by or under the authority or apparent authority of an unlawful association) which by its constitution or propaganda or otherwise advocates or encourages (or which is, or purports to be, affiliated with any organization which advocates or encourages) sabotage; damage to property used in cross-border trade or commerce; revolution or war against either any civilised country or organised government; or the doing of any act having or purporting to have as an object the carrying out of a seditious intention was an unlawful association for the purposes of the Act.
The Act went on to criminalise members (deemed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to include attendees at a meeting, those speaking in public in advocacy of an association or its objects or distributing its literature), officers, representatives and teachers in any institution or school conducted by or under the authority or apparent authority, of an unlawful association, as well as persons printing or selling material produced by, or intentionally permitting a meeting in their premises of, such an association.
I would like to express my profound gratitude to diaspora monkeys like Peter for financing our newest homes of Kfirs and Migs.
Military reforms to meet an external threat-Ranga Jayasuriya of LabkbimaNews
Excerpt
However, the relocation of the Kfir and MIG 27 squadrons, which used the Katunayake International Airport to another location, did not materialize due to various reasons in the past. Kfir Interceptors require a runway of minimum 1000 meters in length for their take off, but the none of the military air strips in the country was long enough. An earlier plan to relocate the Kfir squadron to Sigiriya was also abandoned after environmental and ecological concerns of the archeological site were raised. However, with the recent developments, chances are that the Kfir and MIG Squadrons would be relocated to Iranamadu or Mulliyawelli, where the Tigers had a 3.5 km long runway.
re: my first post today, I meant to say outward bound , not outbound! :)
It seems that there are some monkeys still living in Jaffna who are unable to understand the strong ethnic, linguistics, and religious ties Sinhalese have with India. Perhaps, this tiger striped monkeys should learn that despised chronicles of Sinhalese to understand the ties.
Pitting India against China over Sri Lanka?
"Next comes the punch, that too quoting civil society representatives, “The Sinhalese people in Sri Lanka have faith only on China while the Tamils had absolute faith on India which had committed a historical blunder by betraying the Tamils in Sri Lanka,” one of the civil society representative participant said, commenting on Alok Prasad’s visit to Jaffna.
"While the government is continuing to do what it can with the severe constraints it is faced with, vested interests are still attempting to portray a picture of gloom and plead for Indian intervention in the resettlement and rebuilding of the north, political observers say. They also add that the Indian High Commissioner seems to be capable of making his own observations and arrive at a conclusion."
sara,
he has written some books about it and there were some documentaries about them. in retrospect(???) and the fog of war if i remeber right.
MOST exciting are his plocesses to GET the models FROM THE SOLDIERS, PILOTS, etc!!
thambala, suranimala,
the 2 are for 2 different purposes, although VERY BROADLY for maritime close to shore patrols, etc.
super deborah was VERY successful and it makes perfect sense to buy it. colombo class boats cannot match some innovative stuff in the deborah. BUT MOST of our close to shore crafts will be colombo class boats. SDs COMPLIMENTING their power.
safer borders is the MOST important thing to prevent the reemergence of terror and investing in high tech PROVEN SUCCESSFUL weapons for that purpose IN TIME is a must.
i also came to know that we plan to buy advanced Mi-24 HINDs. (Mi-35 export version) SIX of them. another very good move.
"Kfir and MIG Squadrons would be relocated to Iranamadu or Mulliyawelli, where the Tigers had a 3.5 km long runway."
oh! yet another brilliant move.
THEORITICALLY, war time deterrence is retaliation (etc.), peacetime deterrence is PREPAREDNESS & "STRIKABILITY".
"deterrence" is the KEY TOPIC that will be discussed behind closed doors between obama and medvedev at the moment.
from island.lk
Fraud, corruption cost SL Rs 1,000 bn in 20 yrs
Evasion etc cost 50 pc of tax revenue
bloody hell!! that is equal to 1.5% of GDP annually!! or 1/3 of the defence budget.
this crap MUST stop. by stopping corruption AND DOING NOTHING ELSE, the economy will grow 1.5%+ MORE every year. for 30 years that is a 35% growth!!! the economy would be 35% BIGGER if not for corruption for the last 20 years. when considered previous corruption, it would be much BIGGER without it.
possible double.
ppl actually have a soft corner for the corrupt. until that changes, nothing will work to stop it.
we need a PTA type of law against corruption. and it should be implemented. now it is VERY EASY to drag FR issues and cripple investigations/recovery, etc.
Moshe,
I have said this before at DW, but I think we need to develop helicopter carriers by converting a few small merchant vessels into flat-tops. These carriers should also be capable of serving as the "mother ships" for smaller Fast Attack Craft such as the Super Dvoras.
The purpose should be to create "task forces" centered on, and commanded from, these helicopter carriers that can carry out longer-term long-range search and destroy operations several thousand miles from land, in addition to policing the 200-mile economic zone of Sri Lanka.
In the past, when SL had to destroy LTTE arms smuggling ships, it was done through pure innovation and grit without such capabilities, even using portable recoilless guns as artillery from otherwise unarmed ships. Those deficiencies need to be rectified.
These helicopter carrier "battle groups" that I am proposing should be capable of carrying at least three MI-24, or equivalent, helicopter gunships and other smaller support helicopters for supply, search and rescue operations. They should also have doors installed at the stern through which a Fast Attack Craft can be retrieved for repairs and maintenance at sea without having to return to port.
In the current global economic climate, merchant and fighting ships are available cents-on-the-dollar at bargain basement prices for such conversion to helicopter carriers.
In the San Francisco Bay Area where I live, for example, there is a vast collection of unused US Navy ships (both merchant vessels and old destroyers and frigates) moored in the San Joaquin River Delta. These are waiting to be destroyed and are being assailed as potential environmental hazards. The problem is that they are too old for the US Navy to use in the numerically smaller Navy of the future, but they may be good enough for SL to refurbish and convert to helicopter carriers.
It may be possible for SL to negotiate with the US Govt to get these at no cost, thus relieving the US Navy of the cost of getting rid of them. The only cost to SL will be getting them underway under their own power, or towed to Sri Lanka if that is not possible! The SL Govt should consider these options now, with an eye to further expanding our indigenous capabilities to build military vessels in Sri Lanka itself.
Just imagine, if we can demonstrate our command of such technological capabilities by filling our own needs, it could create an export market, even building ships at low cost for the US Navy...just as Israel is doing now! Trincomalee, with its superb harbour and its WWII Graving Dry Dock, would be an ideal location for developing such a military oriented industry.
Ananda,
1. SL continues to produce boats, APC, etc.
2. compliment this by advanced technological stuff imported
agree.
in border patrol, there are 3 different aspects.
1. close to shore (with possible landing)/(without landing),
2.off shore close patrol,
3. off shore far away patrol/hunting.
the MOST urgent and CRITICAL need is #1.
2 & 3 are also important. you suggestions are mainly for 2 & 3.
agree with them EXCEPT a few. we DON'T need a ship capable of carrying 3 Mi-24s. ONE Mi-24 is ENOUGH.
ABOVE ALL, we need radar surveillence. we lack very badly in this area. ALL parts of our airspace and ALL shores and upto 10 km from shore MUST be MONITORED 24/7. i don't see ANY improvement in this area badly exposing us.
DETECTION should also happen from land for 1 & 2. that is how we can measure and correct our response to 1 & 2. in 1980s, the success rate (=destruction/detection) was estimated at 5% based on gut feel!! we MUST record this. i'm sure it is well below 80% even now.
Sam Perera said...
[ It seems that there are some monkeys still living in Jaffna who are unable to understand the strong ethnic, linguistics, and religious ties Sinhalese have with India.]
Sam, brother,
You are dead right! These Eelamists are desperately trying to PIT SRI LANKA AGAINST INDIA, trying to present the Sinhalese as some ALIENS who landed in Sri Lanka from Mars, while expounding their own "Umbilical Cord Relationship" with Tamil Nadu!
They forget that even more than them, the Sinhala people have Strong Historical Ties with India. India is the origin of our people, and the fount of our language, our religions, and our customs. These span a longer period of our shared history, and are distributed in kinship to a greater part of the landmass of India.
Furthermore, over the centuries the Sinhala people established strong relationships with several Dravidian States also. The Pandyans were the historical allies of the Sinhalese against Chola incursions, as were the people of Kerala and Andhra Pradesh and Orissa!
I met an Indian-Canadian at a conference I attended on Ocean Wave Energy in Hawaii by the name of Singhal. He was originally from the Indian state of Orissa. He told me that his name means "Sinhala", that he is related to the Sinhalese of Sri Lanka, and that it is well recognized in Orissa! He said that there are vast number of people in Orissa belonging to his community with the name "Singhal"!
I was astonished, though I should not have been because he looked very much like a Sinhalese. We toured the the islands of Oahu and Hawaii together during the conference, and are still friends.
That is why I am strongly in favor of maintaining our family relationship with India, even as we prepare to confront transgressions by India against Sri Lanka as in the past. We must make every effort to patch things up between our two countries, even though many in India do not acknowledge, or value the kinship that as much as we do.
"while expounding their (tamil elamists') own "Umbilical Cord Relationship" with Tamil Nadu!
that will be CUT PREMATURELY (b4 tamil elam is established) by the sethu project physically and actually.
the great miscarriage of tamil elam-2!
Ananda,
"many in India do not acknowledge, or value the kinship that as much as we do."
yes. but we have to forge a strong relationship. to do that we should be able to,
1. EXPLOIT a gap between TN and india
2. do something valuable to india (not to TN).
3. build UPON the cultural/linguistic similarities between india and SL
4. brings us closer to india BYPASSING TN.
5. ultimately making TN look like aliens.
for that SL needs to follow some SHREWED yet effective policies. the cultural/linguistic COMMONALITIES are the stepping stones.
SL should promote HINDI (THAN TAMIL). HINDI proficiency must be raised DRAMATICALLY. this can be done EASILY as 90% of sri lankans speak another indo-aryan language - sinhala. if 10% of the population can speak hindi, that's enough.
it gives us MASSIVE business/cultural opportunities in 1,200,000,000 population than just 70,000,000.
PLUS pakistan, MANY hindi/urdu speaking communities around the world.
india failed to implement hindi in TN. this way it can BYPASS TN!!! eventually TN will be forced to accept hindi. that would be the end of their support for tamil elam/dravida nadu/tamil superiority CRAP.
Our "Singhal" relatives in India
From Wikipedia.org
The surname Singhal came about during the rule of Emperor Agrasen and his wife Queen Madhavi (3200 B.C). Agrasen established 18 Gotras (or clans) for each of his 18 sons based on the names of their Guru and divided his empire among them. Collectively these 18 Gotras are called Aggarwal, one of the most important trading communities in India. Singhal as a surname is also used by other communities which are not necessarily related to Shri Agrasen.
Singhal (or Singal/Sinhal/Singla ) is one of the original 18 Gotras established by Agrasen. The name itself appears to be related to Sanskrit vamša (lineage). Gotra : Singhal Original Gotra : Shandalya Lord : Sindhupati Saint (Guru) : Shringi/Shandilya Veda : Samaveda Branch : Koyumi/Kauttham Sutra : Gobhil
Marwaris are the people from Rajasthan in India. Although Marwar refers to the region around Jodhpur, most marwari merchants are actually from Shekhawati. Though Marwari as a genre originated from a place name, the Marwari people have spread to many regions of India, and even to neighboring countries, as they expanded their business and trade networks. In many locales, Marwari immigrants over time (and, usually involving many generations) have blended in with the regional cultures.
Marwaris
The Marwar region includes the central and western parts of Rajasthan. The word Marwar is considered to be derived from Sanskrit word Maruwat, the meaning of maru being 'desert'. Shekhawati region is adjacent to Haryana, the original home of the Agrawals who form the bulk of Marwari banias.
The development of the fresco paintings on Havelis is linked with the history of the Marwaris.
Aggarwals
Agrawals[I] (Hindi: अग्रवाल or अगरवाल) are a large and influential Hindu forward caste in India. Traditionally, the Agrawals have been a trading community in northern India, though in modern times, they follow other professions as well.[1]
The legends of the Agrawals trace their origin to the Kshatriya king Agrasena of the Sun Dynasty, who adopted Vaishya tradition for the betterment of his people.[1][2] Literally, Agarwal means the people of Agroha, an ancient city in the Punjab region founded by Agrasena.[3] In ancient India during the reign of King Agrasena in the Mahabharat epic era the Punjab region was known as Kuru and Panchala and also pancha-nad (territory of five rivers).
Our "Singhal" relatives in India
.... continued ....
Gotras of Aggarwal
There are 18 gotras (Family Name- Titles) of the Agrawal community. All eighteen gotras are the names of sons of Maharajadhiraj Samrat Agrasen Suryavanshi. The names are :-
Garg
Mangal
Kucchal
Goyan
Goyal
Bansal
Kansal
Singhal
Jindal
Thingal
Airan
Dharan
Madhukul
Bindal
Mittal
Tayal
Bhandal
Naagal
All the gotras are in the hierarchy according to the age of sons of Maharaj Agrasen. Garg was name of Crown Prince Vibhu, the eldest son of Maharaj Agrasen, who ascended the throne of Agroha after Maharaja and became Narpati of daskdisha (King of Ten Directions), Samrat of Vaishyas (Lord of Business Men), Naresh of Suryavansh ( Biggest authority of Sun Dynasty) and received tiltes Mahayudhvir (Greatest warrior), SantiDhoot (Angel of Peace) and MahaDhanajarn (Great saver of Wealth). Mangal was king of Punjab, Goyal was king of central India, and all other brothers was given different states for rule in north India. Today Agrakul is the largest alive dynasty in the whole Indian sub continent . Goyal is most widespread Sub-dynasty of Agrakul. Mittal and Jindal prosperous a lot. Lashmi niwas Mittal , world fifth most Richest man belongs to mittal family, Among top 50 Richest business families , nearly 20 families belongs to Agrawal Dynasty. Billionaire corporates houses like Goyenkas (Indian Express), Goyals (Essel Group), Jindals, Singhanias(JK.Group), khaitans, Modi, Barjatiyas (Construction business family) are some wealthiest clans in India, who are again shaping the country into a modern goldern sparrow.
Moshe Dayan said...
[ SL should promote HINDI (THAN TAMIL). HINDI proficiency must be raised DRAMATICALLY.]
Moshe, brother,
You are a Genius! Indeed, THIS IS WHAT WE SHOULD DO!
Moshe,
Ha! Ha!
Wouldn't that be something: TN rejects Hindi, Sri Lanka accepts Hindi willingly!
WoW! What a BLAST that would be! No BETTER way to cement the kinship!
Our "Singhal" relatives in India
...continued...
Number of times this surname "Sinhal" appears in a sample database of 88.7 million names, representing one third of the 1997 US population
Indian (northern states): Hindu (Bania) and Jain name based on the name of a clan in the Agarwal Bania community meaning ‘leonine’, from Sanskrit simha ‘lion’.
Ananda,
actually it was someone else who suggested it here FIRST.
remember the story about young dutugemunu or vijayabahu????
he was sleeping on a big bed like a kitten when his mother told him to stretch and properly sleep. to which he replied (i'm sure he practiced this!!!), "how can i?? on one side there is the sea and on the other there is BLOODY TAMIL MADU ELARA/CHOLA".
now he didn't look at the INDO-ARYAN map!! it is in wikipedia.
had he looked at it, he would know that it is the TAMIL MADU MFs who are actually trapped between BIG INDO ARYAN areas!!
have a look at the map!
OAOA would call it a threesome. while indo-aryan india goes oral and vaginal into tamil madu (and its expansion), little lanka's sharp point goes anal into tamil madu!
this is what we should exploit to remind them that THEY ARE THE ODD ONE OUT here, not us!!!!
we along with the FOUR MALAYALEES + THE BENGALI + THE PANJABI + HINDHIS did it in war. now by other means.
ethnic integration also plays a BIG role.
Our "Singhal" Relatives in India
From Wikipedia.org
The following states have "Singhal", "Sinha" or "Singh" as typical names, which are all related to the Aggarwal clan.
This is a brief compilation of kinship to Sinhala people through this admittedly limited relationship to people bearing these three surnames.
My OBJECTIVE is to show in a crude way that the "Umbilical Cord Relationship" between the peoples of India and the Sinhala people of Sri Lanka is spread over a MUCH LARGER GEOGRAPHIC region of India, and potentially involves a population that is TEN TIMES LARGER than that claimed by the Eelamists to their bretheren in Tamil Nadu.
THEREFORE, to the Eelamists I say: PLEASE ABANDON the Umbilical Cord Relationship as a basis for PITTING INDIA AGAINST SRI LANKA; it will not work for you!
[ States: Haryana (21 million)
Languages: Hindi, Haryanvi
Ahlawat, Beniwal, Chauhan, Chautala, Dahiya, Maan, Malhan, Rathi, Saini,Singhal, Shangwan, Sharma, Sheoran, Talwar
[ States: Bihar (83 million), Jharkhand (30 million)
Languages: Hindi
Typical Names: Agrawal, Akhauri, Asthana, Bajpai, Bharti, Chaturvedi, Choudhary, Dhanjit, Dubey, Dwivedi, Giri, Goswami, Jha, Kumar, Mahato, Mandal, Mishra, Pandey, Paswan, Pathak, Prasad, Puri, Rajak, Sah, Sahay, Sharma, Singh, Sinha, Srivastava, Tanti, Thakur, Tiwari, Tiwary, Trivedi, Upadhyay, Vajpai, Verma, Yadav
[ States: Himachal Pradesh (6 million), Rajasthan (57 million), Uttarakhand (9 million), Delhi (14 million) ]
Languages: Marwari, Hindi, Garhwali, Kumaoni
Typical Names: Aggarwal, Agrawal, Asthana, Bajapi, Bansal, Bartwal, Baurai, Bhati, Bindal, Bisht,Chand, Chandels, Chandratre, Chandratreya, Chaturvedi, Chaudhary, Chauhan, Choudhary, Dashattor, Dhoni, Dhounndiyal, Dixit, Dwivedi, Ghatori, Ghilidiyal, Gulia, Gusain, Jindal, Joshi, Juyal, Kalawat, Kansal, Karamchand, Kaushal, Kumavat, Khatri, Kothiyal, Mathur, Maurya, Mishra, Mittal, Naugai, Nautiyal, Nagda, Negi, Nigam, Niraniya, Panwar, Rai, Rajput, Rajawat, Rana, Rawat, Rathore, Rustagi, Saxena, Shahalia, Sharma, Shekhawat, Shrimali, Singhal, Srivastava, Singh, Thakur, Thapliyal, Tiwari, Tripathi, Trivedi, Uniyal, Vajpai, Verma, Visariya, Yadav,Kukreti
[ Punjab (24 million)]
Languages: Punjabi
Typical Names: Bangar, Ahuja, Bachchan, Garcha, Rakkar, Sihra, Mann, Sehgal, Singh, Kaur, Khalsa, Khosla, Bains, Baweja, Banga, Mahil, Gabbi, Chana, Dhonsi, Dhand, Sidhu, Sandhu, Shahalia, Bal, Brar, Poddar, Dullo, Shergill, Walia, Ahluwalia, Cheema, Chishty, Boparai, Badal, Gill, Grover, Gulati, Sarai, Dhillon, Benipal, Padda, Sekhon, Ahuja, Dulay, Multani, Juneja, Hasija,Khurana,Khanna, Kapoor, Khanduja, Arora, Malhotra, Mehra, Saigal, Suri, Puri, Soni, Tuli, Gupta, Agarwal, Malik, Munjal, Sahani, Saini, Talwar, Chopra, Bajaj, Pathak,Ghera,Sharma, Verma, Bhardwaj, Vashisht, Sood, Bhatia, Dawar, Dhawan,Bhagat, Hundal, Ting Ling
[ Orissa (34 million)]
Languages: Oriya
Typical Names: Biswal, Chandratre, Chandratreya, Patnaik, Samantray, Subudhi, Samal, Satpathy, Dutta, Das, Mohanty, Sahoo/Sahu, Pati, Mishra, Sarangi, Raut/Rout, Ray, Pani, Ratha/Rath, Acharya, Tripathy, Naik/Nayak, Patra, Mohanta, Singh Deo, Senapati, Sandha, Bagh, Hati, Paschimakabata, Gochhayata, Singh, Raj, Khandayata, Dehuri, Basantaray, Behera, Kaibarta, Sarangi, Panda, Mohapatra, Mahapatra, Parija, Parida, Jena, Sabat, Sethi, Dash, Mallick, Sahu/Sahoo, Pradhan, Guru, Padhi, Panigrahi
Our "Singhal" relatives of India
...continued....
[ States: Uttar Pradesh (166 million) ]
Language: Hindi
Typical Names: Chandratre, Chandratreya, Varshney,Agarwal,Tripathi, Srivastava, Jain, Kapoor, Mishra, Pandey, Bhatnagar, Dwivedi, Trivedi, Chaturvedi, Tandon, Gupta, Goel, Garg, Malhotra, Verma, Nigam, Vajpai, Sharma, Maheshwari, Jain, Saxena, Singhal, Sinha, Chopra, Mehra, Mehrotra, Mittal, Mathur, Jalota, Awasthi, Singh
[ West Bengal (80 million) ]
Languages: Bengali
Acharya, Bagchi, Baidya, Banerjee (Bandyopadhyay), Banik, Basak, Bhanja, Bhatta, Bhattacharya, Bid, Biswas, Bose/Basu,Karmakar, Brahma, Chakladar, Chakraborty, Chandratre, Chandratreya, Chanda, Chatterjee (Chattopadhyay), Choudhuri, Das, Dasgupta, Dastidar, Deb, Dey/De, Dhar, Dutta/Datta, Duari, Ganguly (Gangopadhyay), Ghatak, Ghosh, Guha, Guha Neogi Guhathakurta, Gupta, Haldar, Jana, Kabiraj, Kumar, Kundu, Laha, Lahiri, Maitra, Maity, Majumdar, Mal, Mallick, Mandal, Manna, Mitra, Mukherjee (Mukhopadhyay), Nag, Nandan, Neogi, Pal/Paul, Poddar, Pradhan, Pramanik, Ray, Roy/Ray, Rudra, Saha,Santra, Sanyal, Sarkar, Sen, Sengupta, Sensharma, Sinha, Sur, Thakur
Ananda-USA and Moshe,
OPV+Helicopters
I like your ideas of having heli capable OPVs to defend our seas. Mi-24 attack helicopter on board of even our current SLN Sayura is a real lethal combination. Just like Ananda suggests, we need our own indigenous solutions in this aspect.
Learning Hindi
I believe that this is a great idea already happening naturally in Sri Lanka. If not for any other reason, doing business with 1.2 Billion humans is a great opportunity. Reading through your posts, I realized that stronger Sri Lanka with stronger ties to North India is one of the best defences India can have against disintegration issues. Day dreamers of Greater Tamil nation will be SOL when in this political realm with no room to push their separatist agenda.
Moshe,
That conversation about the being hemmed-in between the Great Blue Sea on one side and the Demalas on the other, was between Prince Gamunu (soon to become Dutugamunu when he sent female garments to provoke his father, the King, to fight) and his mother Queen Vihara Maha Devi.
//1. EXPLOIT a gap between TN and india
2. do something valuable to india (not to TN).
3. build UPON the cultural/linguistic similarities between india and SL
4. brings us closer to india BYPASSING TN.
5. ultimately making TN look like aliens//
Seems someone forgot a very important fact that TN is one amongst the 20 odd states in India.
If a person alien to this issue reads some posts,he would be wondering which country you are refering to,when you say TN and India.
Do not,I repeat,DO NOT,generalize TN people based on politico's.I have said this here umpteen number of times.Politico's are Politico's.Which country they belong to doesnt matter at all.They are the same everywhere.
Moshe, SAm,
OK, I am convinced, this is a great idea!
In addition to Sinhala, we need to teach English, Hindi, and Chinese in our schools.
We should for proficiency by 10% of the population in Hindi and Chinese within ONE school generation (say 10-15 years).
indian,
of course TN is part of india.
the problem is TN hasn't integrated well enough into india and there IS A LIVE separatist tendency.
this gap was shown clearly during the last stages of the war. on that india and TN interests CLEARLY CONFLICTED!!!
one party won, the other lost in style!!
the anti-hindi campaign of TN was supported NOT ONLY by politicians. ppl also participated.
they had their traditional SELF-IMMOLATION entertainment in that too!!
culturally and linguistically, NORTH INDIA is much closer to SL than TN.
that is why badrakumar (a former senior diplomat) said, india's RULING CLASS and SL's ruling class speak the same dialect. a bit way off, but still true.
historically it was ALWAYS tamil madu that attacked SL, not anything else.
Family of a warrior who sacrificed his life are living in a cemetery.
Is this fair?
Ananda,
yes, it was young dutugemunu.
BETWEEN THE DEVIL AND THE DEEP BLUE SEA!!!!
the way we routed K(ar)UN(ani)DI was classic!!
he is now 100% subjugated.
Indian,
"If a person alien to this issue reads some posts,he would be wondering which country you are refering to,when you say TN and India."
I haven't posted here for days, but after reading this embarrassing stuff by Mushe and Ananda-Proud to be an American I had to respond.
Indian, if you'd like to be a friend to the "defense enthusiasts" here, you should patiently explain how Sinhalese people learning Hindi will not drive N. India against Tamil Nadu.
You should bear in mind that the defense enthusiasts here cannot conceive India in terms other than "Aryavarta" vs "Dravidistan," totally lacking a nuanced understanding of the differences of Hindi vs Punjabi vs Bengali, Tamil vs Kannada, etc.
You will also have to explain how the better and more accessible markets in India are in the South (and not necessarily just TN), and how difficult it will be to access the poor, landlocked Hindi belt where the Mauryan Empire used to exist.
I would also like to remind you, Indian, that there are Sri Lankans who do know quite a bit about India. Unfortunately, they avoid this blog.
sujeewa,
fcuking unfair.
he won 1,899,200 hectares of land for the country, his family has ZERO.
good work by the newspaper. MOD should give LAND & HOUSES to ALL SLDFs families; living or dead.
we have PLENTY of land. WTF??
Indian, it seems that I missed Mushe's last comments to you.
Looks like he's trying to teach you about your own country. Again, be patient.
as a society we need to infuse ideas that improve the quality of our collective conscience. developed nations have their own unique collective conscience that made them what they are today. what we have is to study what has worked there and take on their positive attributes for own development.
for example,
- japanese work ethic, discipline, order and tidyness.
- british scene of justice and fairplay.
- holistic quality of life with Gross National Happiness of bhutan.
- chinese business acumen etc.
we may add our own. i.e. promoting wholesome traditional family values while tolerating less fortunate examples etc.
we have a clearing to make all this a reality. we have to forget negative sentiments that stop our progress such as we are lazy, not hardworking and corrupt etc.
//moshe dyan said,
the problem is TN hasn't integrated well enough into india and there IS A LIVE separatist tendency.
this gap was shown clearly during the last stages of the war. on that india and TN interests CLEARLY CONFLICTED!!!
one party won, the other lost in style//
Nothing can be far off from what you said.Sorry to be rude,but its absolute hogwash.If you are basing your opinions on the comedy enacted by few joker's,then I dont think your comments even warrant a reply.
There had been no conflict of interests.India as a whole wanted the war to end in the way it ended and TN is no different from that.
moshe,
TamilNet is a one man band. lets not get excited or give it undue publicity. average tamil may not reflect their views. let it and its owner fade away into obscurity.
tamilnet editor will pay the sins he committed in plight of ezam tamils.
having a skill in stringing togeather few fine english sentences does not indicate wisdom or knowledge.
nor does weerawansa's fine sinhala oratory skills. its nice listening or reading them but they offer nothing of substance.
these left wing revolutionary isolationists with their imagined fear or 'imperialism' have done their damge in every corner of the world. the new world order is one of convergence and collaboration for which they are not equipped nor have any skills to play a part.
Taraki alias Whore-Dog alias Monkeypala,
The unkempt history teacher with deranged eyes has come to give a blow job to patriots.
How are you Taraki?
How's life in hell?
I don't see your mother these days in Lanka Academic. Is she dead?
indian,
BULLSHIT!
karunanidhi was a different creature altogether a few months back. it's ppl that voted these lunatics!!!
he was such a DUMBFCUK that SF called him an ASS CLOWN for VERY GOOD reasons.
then suddenly he was told to toe the line and he did it. good on him.
but not without his other CHIEF MINISTER companion jayalalitha. that BITCH lost this time but MILLIONS of crappies voted for her TAMIL ELAM crap!!!
she was a chief minister of TN as well.
they are not mere politicians, they won the OVERWHELMING SUPPORT OF TAMIL MADU IDIOTS.
and they continue to adore them!!! and no one else!
you may not be a suffering from memory loss syndrome to forget about all the FUNNY ANTICS almost all tamil madu people's representatives did for the past few months. at one point those JOKERS threatened to pull out from the ruling congress if they don't get a ceasefire in SL!!!!!
there was another instance of india training SLAF officers not known to tamil madu jokers!!! when the jokers came to know, they were relocated to some other part!!!
yet again india was transporting weapons to SL. when the tamil madu jokers came to know, they made such a big fuss that india had to lie!!!
Dayan,
I have to agree with Monkeypala alias Taraki on some points though. He had read this in his mother's brothel. One client left a newspaper. Sumanakka and Tracey veshi told me. Tracey is a bigger whore than Sumanakka now.
You will also have to explain how the better and more accessible markets in India are in the South (and not necessarily just TN), and how difficult it will be to access the poor, landlocked Hindi belt where the Mauryan Empire used to exist.
Bugger is right here. Not all but some of what you say is bee-ess. Tamil Nadu is India. India will never take Sri Lanka in equal status.
Dayan brother, you can't win all the arguments all the time.
McNAMARA
Thanks Moshe,
I collected some interesting things about MacNamara, given below:
[1- McNamara embodies the triumph of modern management techniques in modern society, including in military affairs.
2- Even his son, as a Stanford University student, protested against the Viet Nam war while his father was running it.
3-At Harvard, McNamara once had to flee a student mob through underground utility tunnels.
4- told Time magazine in 1991 that he did not think the bombing of North Vietnam -- the greatest bombing campaign in history up to that time -- would work but he went along with it "because we had to try to prove it would not work, number one, and (because) other people thought it would work!!!!!!."]
My comment:
With all his managerial techniques McNamara was out foxed by Vo Nguyen Giap who (I presume) had no computers or mathematical models.
INDIA & TAMIL NADU
I work with a lot of Indians here. I have found that they have the following in built perceptions:
1) South Indians (Tamils & Keralites) feel that they are the clever and educated ones.
2) They consider the North Indians are considered as some sort of Bandas. They may be good at business and exploitation of people but not in other professions.
(This is similar the Banda concept that SL Tamils have)
3) The North Indians consider Tamils & Indians as not 'fully Indian' (perhaps because they are Dravidian and non Aryan?)
panhinda,
no & yes. while TN is a joke site today, unfortunately it also reflects what tamil elamists are trying hard.
priyasantha,
that is another CRAP argument. all the indians i have met, except from tamil madu can speak hindi. india's GDP is close to US$1.5trillion+ and tamil madu is only 6.5% of that and FALLING PERCENTAGE!!!
1,500,000,000,000 - india
100,000,000,000 - TN
wesapala cannot understand which is bigger and which is smaller. just like a prostitute.
FYI i have no arseache to win ANY argument.
sara,
everybody knows that. but that is not the point. i had this discussion with someone else b4 here. also don't judge by v-war ALONE!!!
v-war was lost due to many many reasons. US DS cannot function freely as SL DS. many crackpots interfere. he also did mistakes. but everything put together made his worth even bigger!!!
he has experience winning AND LOSING WARS than most experts!! (what to avoid).
BTW you have not found ANY relating to math!!!! LOL!
although he lost the v-war, he won vietnam back when vietnam shed communism (which they "won" through war) and adopted capitalism!!!!!
Special Report on Sri Lanka Equity Analytics by one of our special guests Mr Dinesh Weerakkody
www.srilankaequity.com
Untapped tourism potential of Sri Lanka and poverty alleviation
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Moshe Dyan,
I am dumbfounded by your lack of knowledge on whats happening here.
I noticed the same with Ananda-USA as well.Its not surprising considering what you write here is entirely based on what you are told \ what you read.
Yes.Karuna was elected by the people and JJ before him.So???
If you think people here in TN vote only on Eezham,then you are definitely out of your minds and need some treatment.The polling pattern this time too showed that both ADMK and DMK got their support base intact.As it always happens in any election,it was the fencesitters who gave the edge to DMK + Congress combine.
In any election in any country,Party A and PartyB will always get their voteshare from their supporters.Its the fencesitter's who caste their votes based on issues who decide the outcome.
The fact is people outright rejected the silly drama enacted wiz a wiz Eelam issue.
..And this is not the first time TN has done this.Even during IPKF days,when the same drama was enacted and when DMK cried that IPKF should be pulled back,Rajiv's Congress and ADMK netted 40 out of 40.
As you PREDICT,if we are yet to integrate fully with India,then DMK & Congress combine would have been routed out in this election.No way they would have won 28 out of 39 and also the lone seat from Pondicherry.
JJ's alliance which included the JackAss Vaiko,harped out and out on the Eezham plank.They were given a beating from which they are yet to recover.
SLAF training??!!!???!!!?????!! I think its better you stop writing on this blog about India \ TN. India has been training officer's from Neighbouring countries and people it has pact with for ages in NDA \ OTA \ IMA.The so called SLAF training you talk about is also one such and they were part of OTA.They werent shifted anywhere and stayed right here to pursue their course.
It was not weapons that Army was transporting and India didnt hide anything.Army was returning back from its camp and it was twisted.Those people are learning the lessons of their life now.
I find it really funny,that you people who have only hearsay knowledge "I work with many,they said so" \ "I met one person,he said so" blah blah blah and still generalize so much.
what priyasantha says is not true.
i have no arseache to win the argument. let the truth prevail. and it is OBVIOUS.
indian,
funny that you are saying the same thing as i'm saying on certain matters!!!
did we say anything against INDIA's anti-SL conduct as opposed to tamil nadu?????
read our posts fully.
MK and JJ were elected by ppl. BOTH are crackpot dumbfcuks!
one trash may look better than the other but both are TRASH!!
indian rulers IGNORED BOTH of them.
agree with you that it was good that the MAJORITY rejected JJ's elam crap BUT you cannot deny that MILLIONS did vote for JJ's crap.
SLAF - the point i'm making is about an incident ONLY. obviously india was right in training our airmen. and india was CERTAINLY right in doing so despite TAMIL MADU bullshit agitations.
india DID hide the weapons thing from media, etc (WHICH IS VERY VERY GOOD!!). they said "only non-offensive" weapons were delivered which is 100% untrue!!!
the bottomline is this.
1. we are not at all against india, unless it tries to do BS with us.
2. indian interests and TN interests are not the SAME, ALWAYS
3. indo-aryans there and indo-aryans here have many things in common and will have many MORE things in common
4. SL's neighbour is india NOT TAMIL MADU
if you agree to these, there is no argument.
1. we are not at all against india, unless it tries to do BS with us.
- Agreed and its the same the other way round too.
2. indian interests and TN interests are not the SAME, ALWAYS
-Thats crap and the basic point of contention as there is no separate Indian interest \ TN interest \ Kerala interest \ AP interst etc.Its always INDIA's interest.Nothing else matters
3. indo-aryans there and indo-aryans here have many things in common and will have many MORE things in common
-This Aryan \ Dravidian principle might hold good for a very few selected audience in absolute minority.People dont view it that way,especially in these Global Village days
4. SL's neighbour is india NOT TAMIL MADU
-Fantastic.Thats how it should remain.
//MK and JJ were elected by ppl. BOTH are crackpot dumbfcuks!//
.....like all their counterparts the world over,I mean the politicos.The people who voted for JJ vote for her anyways.Thats the whole point.Ranil might have lost the election,but there are people who still support him,isnt it?They will remain his supporter's irrespective of whatever he does.Thats how politics and the support base work.
SLAF - the point I am trying to make is its not just SLAF alone.As I type this there are a host of candidates from various countries undergoing training at OTA \ IMA \ NDA.Check their websites and you will know the list of nations.
I dont deny India's hand during this war.All I am trying to say is,the one off incident you reported was misquoted in the media and I am stating the facts.Seems you too fell for the media
Dayan,
I was not trying to fight with you. I just said it in general.
I see your point. It is true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
Click for the link here
There are 7 times more Hindi speakers than Tamil speakers in India.
The percentage of Hindi speakers is rising. Percentage of Tamil speakers is falling. One day 50% will be speaking in Hindi. One day India will beat China in population.
Moshe & Sara,
Hah! Lots of debate in my absence! Let me contribute my two cents worth also!
On MacNamara & the Vietnam war:
1. Moshe identifies the North Vietnamese as communists ... that is the US/French party line, but is FAR FROM REALITY.
Actually, they were NATIONALISTS, but unfortunately got labelled as communists. They needed weapons to kick the colonialists and their puppets out, and the only folks who would give them that support were the Russians and the Chinese. The motives of these communist powers was of course driven by communist idealogy.
If the US had pushed South Vietnam to hold the elections as agreed to at the partition of Vietnam (after the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu), the North Vietnamese would have won the election hands down and unified their country.
But, the weak thinkers in Washington DC, ably supported by the "whiz kid" McNamara, cooked up a Domino theory on Communism, and decided to fight a proxy war in Vietnam against the Russia and China to stop the progress of RED TIDE of "communism" in its tracks.
All the North Vietnamese NATIONALISTS wanted to do was to kick the colonialists out and reunify their country under Vietnamese leadership...and they got dragged willy-nilly into a fight against COMMUNISM! If the US had done the right thing and allowed Vietnam to be reunified consequent to elections, Vietnam would have become a strong ally of the US much earlier without the loss of so many Vietnamese and American lives.
2. China has been the historical enemy of Vietnam, and US would have been the natural ally of the reunified Vietnam. In fact, after the Vietnam war had ended, there was a brief border conflict between China and Vietnam. Subsequent to that, Chinese residents within Vietnam were expelled by Vietnam to China. Today, that border is still tense, and competition between Vietnam and China for the petroleum resources of the Gulf of Tonkin and the South China Sea is intense, given that China claims an economic zone as far south as the Phillipines!
3. In my view, the reason the US lost in Vietnam was because neither the South Vietnamese Government nor the US had the unwavering allegiance and support of the South Vietnamese people WHO HAD TO FIGHT THE WAR. The reason was that the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong succeeded in portraying the the South Vietnamese government as a Western Colonialist puppet and not truly nationlist.
There is some history behind that. When the French were defeated, all of the largely Catholic, French speaking, French supporting Vietnamese colonial elite left Hanoi and relocated to Saigon. This small elite were installed as the government of South Vietnam by the departing French, but they were never truly representative of the largely Buddhist, Vietnamese speaking, people of South Vietnam, who would have voted for union with North Vietnam HAD THE ELECTIONS been held. With the US rapidly filling the vacuum left by the French, and money for arms pouring in, and security breaking down everywhere the only employment for Vietnamese men was in the Army, while the women manned the bars. But, these men would never fight the way Sri Lankan soldiers fought in the Eelam war, for people who were ultimately the proxies of their colonial oppressors. Given that, with a few exceptions, only the US soldiers could be trusted to fight consistently. There were never ENOUGH OF US troops AT THE FRONT IN VIETNAM (2 soldiers were needed in rear areas to support every US soldier at the front) to hold the territory, interdict the supply routes such as the Ho Chi Minh Trail, and win the war. Consequently, when the US Army pulled out, South Vietnam floded like a pack of cards.
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